Alex Jablonski: Alright! Welcome everybody to this session on Pre-law: What you need to know. My name is Alex Jablonski. I am Assistant Director of Pre-law and Pre-grad, Advising here in the Central Career Office at Cornell. The session today is gonna be an overview of pre-law. We're gonna move a little quickly. One of the goals of this is to point you toward our office or to the many pre-law advisors we have on campus. Alex Jablonski: and some of our online resources. And to give you just a big. broad view of things to be thinking about. Alex Jablonski: As you approach a potential interest in the law, as you consider potential interest in going to law school just to give you an idea of some of the terms, some of the considerations. Alex Jablonski: some of the topics, were further investigation, and ultimately, as I say, to encourage you to come and meet with us and considering your resources going forward. Alex Jablonski: so we'll dive in. I always like to start with just broad basic level definition of terms as an academic, they feel like that's always really important. Alex Jablonski: So when we talk about pre-law, generally speaking, we are talking about preparation for a legal career when we talk about a legal career. Really, what we mean is preparation to become a lawyer Alex Jablonski: practicing mostly in the United States that tends to be the the focus of a lot of our work. There are exceptions. There are a lot of careers that have a legal dimension to them Alex Jablonski: for which a law degree is not required. There are things you can do with a law degree that are not practicing law which we could talk about a little bit. But, generally speaking, the bulk of our focus about pre-law is Alex Jablonski: preparation. Students preparing students and alumni preparing to attend law school. Alex Jablonski: Earn the JD. Pass the Bar and practice as attorneys in some form or fashion. So what is a lawyer Alex Jablonski: A lawyer is, broadly speaking, an advocate, a counselor and negotiator. Very broad terms. Alex Jablonski: In the United States. Alex Jablonski: 99.5% of practicing attorneys hold one degree, one graduate degree. It's called the JD. The Juris Doctor. Also globally the law degree and that qualifies you to practice law in almost any field Alex Jablonski: on its own. The partial exception is patent law. Alex Jablonski: We can definitely talk about that. There's always somebody on the call who's interested in patent law. So I'm happy to take that up in the Q&A at the end. Once you earn the Jd. Of course. Then you have to pass what's known as the bar, the bar exam, which is an admissions exam Alex Jablonski: had to be admitted to practice in certain jurisdiction, usually we're talking about the State Bar. That's where people start. But there are other Bars and other ways of practicing Alex Jablonski: holding a singular degree. Lawyers are qualified to practice in a wide variety of areas. Alex Jablonski: And one of the interesting things about law is as a toolkit. It touches every aspect of our public and private life. So you can see there. This listed out some examples, some of many examples of the different fields in which lawyers can practice, and within those fields subdivide and subdivide and subdivide into different functions, different specialties, different practice areas. There's so many different possibilities in law. But, generally speaking, practicing as a lawyer involves practicing Alex Jablonski: using in some way your expertise as an advocate as a counselor, negotiator on behalf of clients, resolving issues, guiding them to their difficult circumstances Alex Jablonski: as an advocate. Alex Jablonski: There is the opportunity for specialized training in the law. Beyond the JD. So there's a further master's.,The LOM Alex Jablonski: master of the laws is what the Latin means. There's also a further doctor of theoretical sciences, which is an academic degree. Alex Jablonski: But, generally speaking, we're focused on the JD here. The law degree, as I mentioned at the beginning, can also be an asset in other areas, you know. So somebody who goes into business into a leadership role working in compliance, who's not practicing as an attorney Alex Jablonski: and a job that requires admission to the Bar requires the JD may still find it as an asset Alex Jablonski: in the role and certainly something that's highly prized in a wide number of different areas. Alex Jablonski: So the big question that confronts somebody who's pre law and a big question that me and my colleagues in in pre law, advise and contend with. Alex Jablonski: Is the question that we have often conference with us. Do you want to be a lawyer? Usually students and alumni will come to us with a question of should I apply to law school? And how do I apply to law school? And we'll certainly talk a little bit about that today. But the bigger question the first question that sometimes gets skipped is, should you be doing this at all? Alex Jablonski: Do you want to be a lawyer, and for what reasons? And so pre-law for me is mostly Alex Jablonski: and exploratory exercise. It starts with exploring your interests to start with coming to know yourself. It starts with answering this question before we figure out the how Emily Hart: and so that exploration, which is a big part of what we do actually in Career Services. Alex Jablonski: (muffled noises) Thank you.   Alex Jablonski: A lot of what we do in Career Services is work with students and alumni on exploratory exercises. You know something that will come to us for resume review and interview practice those kinds of things. And of course we do that. Alex Jablonski: But a big part of career preparation is exploration. It's coming to kind of understand what your goals are and map out Alex Jablonski: plans for pursuing them. So for me. This exploration process starts with big, broad questions, big, abstract questions that have no particular grounding Alex Jablonski: in a career Alex Jablonski: and a particular occupation and a particular next step. They're big, investigative, introspective questions Alex Jablonski: that you can use your bulk of your undergrad really investigate, and then, hopefully, you will continue to investigate and interrogate as you go forward in your life. But these are Alex Jablonski: what's interesting to you? What's important to you? What are you seeing in the world around you that moves you? What do you care about? Alex Jablonski: What kinds of things do you want to work on? What problems do you see in the world that needs solving that you feel moved to solve? What do you find satisfying? Alex Jablonski: What does success mean to you? And importantly, how would you know if you had it? How would you know if you were successful? Alex Jablonski: We're confronted all the time by other people's ideas of success. Other people's metrics of success? Alex Jablonski: People who are very important to us, whose perspective people whose perspective we wish wasn't as important as it is. Alex Jablonski: Our own values of changing values. What is success? And what that means us. Alex Jablonski: your other values. And what's important to you? Where do you find you can compromise? Where can't you? What will you? What do you really feel like you need to stand for and act on. Who do you want to work with? Who do you want to serve? And what kind of an impact you want to have in the world around you? These are big questions. Alex Jablonski: It can have big answers. But getting a sense of of Alex Jablonski: how you might approach some of these, or how they might help you to understand yourself really sets the groundwork for more specific questions. Alex Jablonski: So once you have some kind of an inkling to those answers. You can then get a little bit more grounded. Alex Jablonski: So, given the things you think you're interested in, how do you want to approach those issues and problems, what tools, what skills, what frameworks and analysis, what perspectives you want to employ as you approach the topics, the issues, the problems that you're really interested. In what role do you want to play in an organization and your community? And then what professional paths are going to help you meet those goals? Alex Jablonski: What are the strengths? What are the limitations? What do they open up for you? And what ways do they meet those larger questions? What suits you best, and why? Alex Jablonski: And then, finally, at the end of this whole process, is the question of whether or not you need to go to graduate school. Alex Jablonski: whether you're not you need to go to law school. If you go through all of this and you decide, you know, I really think a career in the law is going to be the thing that Alex Jablonski: helps me animate me, that animates me, that helps me put my values into practice. It helps me make the kind of impact. I want to have that that excites me Alex Jablonski: procedurally. That excites me technically, intellectually. This is the place where I really want to be. Alex Jablonski: Then possible, make sense. But many people come to us, I think understandably Alex Jablonski: already, feeling like they want to be lawyers already thinking they're gonna go to law school Alex Jablonski: and not having necessarily done a lot of that groundwork beforehand. Alex Jablonski: to make sure that that's, in fact, the right decision for them. It's totally natural. Lawyers are things that we see around us all the time. Lawyers are very visible profession, something people understand, something that connects stability, success, social respect. Alex Jablonski: And so it draws a lot of people in. But understanding what it is on the ground Alex Jablonski: is really important, and understanding how it relates to you and your values is really important. Alex Jablonski: And that's really for me what the pre-law process is primarily is coming to understand whether you wanna be a lawyer. And if so, why? Alex Jablonski: And investigating that. So some strategies, you know. Just to kind of put this into practice here in context of law. Alex Jablonski: the goal is to pre-law student is to Alex Jablonski: investigate potential, interesting career paths, legal and otherwise. I think it's really key, especially if you've come into undergrad knowing you want to be a lawyer. Alex Jablonski: to look at things that are not the law, so that you have options to choose from, so that you can pick the law or be a lawyer from a range of possible options rather than just assume it's the only one. Alex Jablonski: Understand your values. Understand yourself. then decide how you want to pursue them Alex Jablonski: and really understand that you're not just building a resume which many people focus on, I think understandably. But you're coming to understand yourself. And if you're taking active, intentional steps to do that Alex Jablonski: the resume will come along. The resume is something that will reflect that than something external to you that just needs to be that just needs to be filled out. Alex Jablonski: So you're clarifying reasons for going to law school. It's not. Do you want to go to law school? But do you want to be a lawyer? Alex Jablonski: And if so, why? And this is important because Alex Jablonski: as we'll talk about in a minute, going to law school is a big decision comes with big costs Alex Jablonski: to the investment. Alex Jablonski: But also when you get to the point of applying, being able to articulate some of this stuff confidently and persuasively, is gonna make you a better applicant, so pays dividends in that regard, too. Alex Jablonski: So like to talk about that right now. Alex Jablonski: what makes a good applicant? This is the big question, what do I need to have to apply to law school? What are law school's looking for? Alex Jablonski: This comes right from the American Bar Association. It is right on their section about legal education. Alex Jablonski: And it you don't have to read the whole thing. I won't read it to you. But I want to highlight 2 sections of the American Bar Association's recommendation for what an aspiring Alex Jablonski: law student needs to have. First. the ABA doesn't recommend any undergraduate major or group of courses to prepare. and, second, instead. it encourages anybody interested in law school to pursue an area of study that interests and challenges them and take while taking advantage of opportunities to develop research and writing skills. Alex Jablonski: So the real emphasis here is on flexibility, on self-determination and the development of skills. And the real lesson to take from this that we take as real advisors is, you have a lot of options. You have a lot of control over what you're Alex Jablonski: path as a pre-law student or a pre-law, you could come to this decision. Well, after you've graduated Alex Jablonski: what steps you need to take, and what that path to law school, what that exploratory process might look like for you? Alex Jablonski: law schools. They get a little more specific. They're looking for a record of achievement Alex Jablonski: academically. So they're looking for a course of study that's rigorous, meaningful helps you to develop these skills that every lawyer needs to be successful. What's really crucial is that they're not looking for law classes. Alex Jablonski: They're not looking for law majors. They're not looking for legal research as such. That that's not prerequisite. In fact, many law school professors will look at anything you're gonna undergrad and say, well, well, you're gonna be doing a law school, anyway? Alex Jablonski: So it does. They're they're looking more for a broad base. What's really important here is that you find a pathway forward. a topic that's interesting to you. Alex Jablonski: And it can be in any direction. And I've had students, we've had students apply successfully from every major, every program at Cornell, everything from Engineering to Government. Alex Jablonski: the Hotel school,  Human Ecology to all over the place. And not only do all of these majors and all these programs of study Alex Jablonski: develop these fundamental skills that a lawyer is going to need. Alex Jablonski: But, as I mentioned at the beginning, what such is everything. So somebody who comes out of Engineering or Biological Science is well positioned. Alex Jablonski: like maybe better position Alex Jablonski: to practice law related to, you know, topics in the in those areas than somebody with another background in the humanities, maybe, or in in the more, or in the social sciences, although not mutually exclusive. Of course you can continue to learn Alex Jablonski: after you've graduated from undergrad. What's really crucial is to think about that skill building and to take your studies and undergrad is to an extent as an opportunity to build skills while studying something that's interesting to you. Understanding that that's one of the takeaways. Lawyers fundamentally Alex Jablonski: take difficult topics, difficult source texts. interpret them and make them make sense for people they're trying to help. Right? That's that's sort of the fundamental exercise. Alex Jablonski: And anytime you're in a class where you're facing something that's difficult to understand, that you have to pull apart, that you have to analyze, that you have to put into practice. Whether that's Alex Jablonski: you know, complicated mathematical formula, or whether it's a you know, or whether it's a Alex Jablonski: deep and complicated piece of artwork that you're trying to. You're trying to pull meaning from or trying to understand. It's the same exercise. Fundamentally, it's that same analytical and critical thinking. It's that same interpretive exercise. It's that same organization of information Alex Jablonski: intimid. You're making an argument based in evidence, practicing the muscle that is going to serve you well as a lawyer and lots of other places. This is the Alex Jablonski: the question of transferable skills that you probably hear people talk about what? Alex Jablonski: So that's what we're talking about. When you develop the course of study, you have control to choose things you're interested in and know that Alex Jablonski: along the way you'll be developing these important skills. Also, they're gonna be looking, of course, at your test scores. This is another metric for academic performance and academic ability. Alex Jablonski: A little bit more. But test scores do weigh heavily here as well. They're also looking for involvement. Law schools like to see involvement involvement in extracurricular activities that are interesting and impactful. They like to see leadership Alex Jablonski: again, here, they're not necessarily looking at law related experience. Lots of experience Alex Jablonski: filtered through the lens of law school and legal practice is really valuable. So they're looking at experience from all kinds of different directions. but they like to see investment. Alex Jablonski: They like to see sustained involvement, and they like to see leadership, because, if anything, lawyers, you know, by and large, find themselves in positions of leadership, helping people make difficult decisions or making them themselves Alex Jablonski: and tasked with often, you know, quite a bit of responsibility in doing that. You'll need great recommendations from professors, professors, and professional mentors, people who can attest to your abilities academically, professionally, your maturity, your drive, your motivations. Alex Jablonski: And they're also gonna be looking at character and fitness issues. This, I'd just like to throw this out here Alex Jablonski: any time any law school you apply to, and certainly any Bar that you apply to is going to ask you questions about legal history. It's going to ask you questions about student conduct, academic honesty. And it's really important one that you disclose any potential violations or issues that are relevant to those questions. Alex Jablonski: But it's even better if starting out, you can avoid those issues entirely. So know that  things will come back up. Even things that are sealed or expunged will come back up they will, you'll they will. You'll be asked to divulge those things. Alex Jablonski: It's best, if you could avoid it, to stay out of trouble. Not everything is disqualifying. More than happy to have conversation about that on an individual basis, with anybody who might have questions about that. Alex Jablonski: but, if at all possible avoiding. Alex Jablonski: Trouble was the easiest way to solve that problem. Alex Jablonski: So fundamentally, law schools are looking for applicants who are one, passionate have applied or pursued their passion in interesting ways. Alex Jablonski: People who would bring an interesting perspective to their law school class, and anybody who's pursued their passions, who's kind of taking time to understand what they care about and pursued it with intention, comes away. Being an interesting person, there's really no way to do that and not be interesting, have an interesting perspective right? Who can articulate a mature and compelling reason for pursuing a legal career. So again, having really thought through the decision Alex Jablonski: and having being able to articulate that writing and speaking may seem more compelling applicant, and who's ready to face the challenges of law school. So that's academic rigor. That's the responsibility. That's the structure. And of your time, the working clients, all the things that go into succeeding in law school. Alex Jablonski: Do you need legal experience? I've been hinting at this quite a bit. No, law schools are not looking for legal experience. Alex Jablonski: They don't require it. Alex Jablonski: But it can be helpful, and it's something I do recommend, if at all possible. But the reasons we've just been talking about legal experience can help you Alex Jablonski: to network in the field, connect with lawyers. Can help you to experience the actual work of the law which is really crucial. Alex Jablonski: You know, if you really want to understand whether this is path you want to walk down, getting your hands on it, getting your hands dirty, working with clients connecting with the train, seeing what it actually looks like day to day is the best experience you can have to make to understand whether or not this is what you want to do. This will often come to the law Alex Jablonski: in the abstract, in the classroom, theoretically  and that kind of legal thinking is really interesting, but being able to connect that Alex Jablonski: to what lawyers do in practice is hugely important. And then it helps you to decide. You know, before you attend law school, whether or not law is the right path. You know, you want to know what you're getting into before you actually make this decision and getting some legal experience can be a great way to do that. Alex Jablonski: What exploring the, what, what legal experience looks like can vary most of the time. Probably, as I'm talking, a lot of people are thinking about internships, or even postgrad employment. Alex Jablonski: And that's true. Internships are great opportunity, a great experience. If you can get one by all means get your hands on it, spend a summer working at a law firm or nonprofit. Alex Jablonski: and really try it out. Sometimes they can be hard to come by. They're not well advertised for undergraduates. They do exist. Alex Jablonski: Anybody who's been on anchor Linkedin, and has looked for undergraduate entrance in the law will probably see that almost everything is advertised to current law students Alex Jablonski: doesn't mean they don't exist. They just aren't well advertised, and often it takes few more steps actively reaching out Alex Jablonski: to firms and other offices, you know, asking for opportunities, but they are out there. But other than internships. Alex Jablonski: informational interviewing that is, connecting with practicing attorneys and asking them questions about their experience, asking them, detail the questions about what they do, how they got there, what advice they have for you, Job shadowing those same people. If you can visit a law office for a day, if you can go to court a couple of times with an attorney, if you can actually just sit and watch, and if somebody take you through what they do, even if it's not a sustained experience that can be really eye opening Alex Jablonski: and then volunteering right? Volunteering Alex Jablonski: in a number of different settings. Well, maybe not necessarily law specific. We'll get you in with the community. We'll get you working on issues that matter to people. And there's always usually some kind of legal dimension. One other thing to say about internships that isn't explicitly on this slide. Alex Jablonski: If you have an internship in another area, I get this question quite a lot from people who are doing public service work or labor work in a MLAR or consulting finance. I get this question all the time. Alex Jablonski: and they're not in law-related internships but there are always lawyers. There are always lawyers somewhere. and one of the best things you can do. General practice in an internship is to advocate for yourself. But in this context, specifically Alex Jablonski: start asking around, start asking where the lawyers are? What firm do we engage to handle these issues? Are there in? Is there in-house counsel? Alex Jablonski: Are there compliance issues with what we're doing? Is there a team working on that? Can I work on that? Can I meet some people, you know, getting a sense of where the lawyers are, even if you're not in a legal internship, is also a really great way to build out some of this expertise. Alex Jablonski: Getting connected. Just generally speaking, your couple of resources that want to spotlight. So Handshake is gonna be likely maybe found this event through Handshake or got an email through Handshake. It's gonna be where you're gonna find a lot of all of our events. But any jobs or internships that come aware posted there. Alex Jablonski: See? CUeLinks and Linkedin are both excellent resources for connecting with alumni professionals and fellow students. CUeLinks is great. Because all the alumni were in there in there because they want to engage with students, and it's growing every day Alex Jablonski: and then campus groups as well. You'll see our events posted there, but also log related student groups on campus can be found there. Alex Jablonski: Okay. I want to give a quick overview of a timeline. What I'm gonna call this a pre-law time. So what does this look like? Laid out Alex Jablonski: chronologically? I go to a pre-law timeline because it assumes no gap year, no bridge year between undergrad and law school. It assumes a kind of normative approach. I've laid it out. Alex Jablonski: you know, first year to senior year. Alex Jablonski: But really we're just talking sequential, You could come to this process 10 years out. Alex Jablonski: you could come to this process in your junior year. Just thinking about the things to do in order is really what I mean here. General suggestions, right? Make every semester in summer productive. So identify at least one thing that includes coming to an event like this Alex Jablonski: that you can do, related to this interest that's going to move you forward doesn't have to be overwhelming. You don't have to devote your entire life to this. If it's a new interest. If you're a senior. Alex Jablonski: you're graduating, and you're saying, I think I might be interested in law? I have to pack everything in right now. Alex Jablonski: Pick a couple of things, don't overwhelm yourself. beat your dishes. Alex Jablonski: and just give yourself time for a couple of really good experiences and work backward. This is that whole exploratory exercise, as I mentioned at the beginning, figure out those career goals and then work backward to graduate school work backward to law school and make sure that that that's the right step for you to take to achieve something on the other side. Right law school will be 3 years and be 4 years if you're in part time. Alex Jablonski: Your career will be 30 years right. And that's the thing we're really focused on Alex Jablonski: so freshman year. Sophomore year, the first stage, right? We're exploring and we're discovering we're investigating our legal interest. I think I took a class. I might be, you know, really interested in this or (unintelligible) And I that's always been something really interesting. I want to investigate it. Alex Jablonski: That's to take interesting, meaningful classes, not really that or otherwise. Apply yourself. Use your time in class. Alex Jablonski: It's easy to get burned out. It's easy to sit in the back of a class that you know maybe isn't on the face of it the most interesting. It's easy to take a class because you have a distribution requirement, you need to fulfill Alex Jablonski: and just check it off the list to the extent possible. Alex Jablonski: Take classes that stoke some kind of an interest. Alex Jablonski: and really look at the assignments and exercises in those classes and apply yourself. Try to figure out what the lesson is underneath them. Now, every assignment, every class isn't gonna fit this 100% of the time. But really pick out those things where you feel like there's really something meaningful for meaningful for you to learn here and really apply yourself, seek feedback, connect with your professors and grad students, really, you know, use that opportunity. Alex Jablonski: get involved. Right? We talked about that on and off campus, meet with the pre-law advisor. Meet with me, meet with Dana, meet with any of our pre-law advising colleagues on campus, attend an event like this. Alex Jablonski: and start building your network. So professors, people you really like stop by their office, get to know them. Alex Jablonski: Grad students Alex Jablonski: never overlook grad students. They're really, really important. They often do get overlooked. Can be more accessible than professors. Coworkers, your fellow students on campus Alex Jablonski: meet people in the dorm Alex Jablonski: meet people around, meet people in your classes and really start to build connections to people who share your interests and finally talk to lawyers anywhere you can get Alex Jablonski: LinkedIn, your parents, your friends, your parents, friends. Alex Jablonski: talk to lawyers Alex Jablonski: and Alex Jablonski: ask them some of those questions. What in the world should I be doing? How did you get where you are right talking to lawyers building that network Alex Jablonski: and asking a lawyer who you should talk to next, who's in their network be invaluable to starting to map this for yourself. Alex Jablonski: Okay, it's a junior year. So we're coming down and realizing that law might be really interesting to us. We're investigating Alex Jablonski: potential career path and specializations. We're getting more specific, identifying the kinds of law practice. We're networking with attorneys, those areas Alex Jablonski: or researching potential schools Alex Jablonski: attend the Las Fair We hold a Law Fair every year on campus. Alex Jablonski: and we began. We returned that in person last year it was over in the Statler, where we'll be doing that again this fall in October. So get bottom messaging about that and contact your potential recommenders to discuss your plans. So start getting people on your side. Get people in your corner as you're putting this together. One quick note about researching schools. Alex Jablonski: There is a lot of focus on Alex Jablonski: LSAT's and ranking and your chances of admission. Alex Jablonski: And when we're thinking about identifying schools, there are 2 questions we need to think about. One is, what are you looking for? Why would you want to go to law school? Why would you want to go to a specific law school? Alex Jablonski: And the other question is, can you get in right? Why do you want to go? And can you get in? What are your relative chances of admission at each school? Alex Jablonski: We are starting to explore law schools. It's really easy to look at the GPA. You've done on hand. Or maybe you started studying for the LSAT. and to just start looking at your chance of admission, but I would challenge you at the beginning to do the first question. Alex Jablonski: Just find out what excites you about a law school. Figure out what the factors are, what the features are Alex Jablonski: that you're really interested in, that you want out of law school classes, clinics, programs, student groups. Alex Jablonski: career resources, outcomes, figure out the things at the schools you're most interested in that matter to you and figure out who else is doing those things? Well, map the landscape of law schools for yourself. Alex Jablonski: Figure out what your most important factors with the things you value highest in legal education will be. and then, when you get the numbers, you can apply the numbers and locate your range of schools and your list of schools from that. Alex Jablonski: Many people go in and they get, you know, blinded by the ills that they keep pointed by the ranking. And they kind of miss this more textured view Alex Jablonski: of the law school. But it's gonna make you a better consumer to start here. It's also gonna be much more exciting than discouraging. If you start reading about LSAT medians and things like that right off the bat. So figure out what you're excited about. Boost your confidence. Realize that there's lots of options out there. Get a texture sense of what you're looking for move past the name of the school. Alex Jablonski: you know, it's definitely okay to be excited about Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Penn, wherever these sort of  high ranked schools. Alex Jablonski: great schools totally fine to be excited about them. Alex Jablonski: But I'm I think we always need to move past the argument that I'm gonna apply to to this school because it's this school. It could be a reason for the reputation of the school, and it's cachet in certain employment markets. But what else does this school have? Alex Jablonski: What would distinguish it from another highly ranked school? They're really important questions to ask. Okay, Junior Year, we're preparing for the LSAT or the GRE Alex Jablonski: when it comes to prep. I'm not going to talk about this at length here, but start with a cheap plan Alex Jablonski: to assess your strengths and weaknesses, make a study plan and then investigate paid options. If that's something you want to pursue Alex Jablonski: if more cheaply, you can distribute the landscape. Alex Jablonski: figure out your options and figure out what's going to work best for you the better off you're going to be. Take the LSAT or GRE ideally Alex Jablonski: spring or over the summer before you would apply. So that would be the spring or the summer - spring of your junior year or the summer afterward. You want to aim to take the test early enough that you could retake it, and an application cycle. But late enough Alex Jablonski: that you've had ample time to study for it. And then, as I mentioned, you've used that test score to refine your list of potential schools. Alex Jablonski: and even visit schools. Yes, over the summer that if that's feasible for you, I mentioned in here as well that a great opportunity for legal experience, I mean is all the way through. Alex Jablonski: But that summer after sophomore year, maybe that summer after Junior. Those are really key times that we see people looking at internship experiences in particular. Alex Jablonski: Also the LSAT/GRE. There's a lot to say here. Generally speaking, the LSAT is still kind of the standard test here, but schools are increasingly accepting the GRE. Alex Jablonski: If you're just applying to law school. I still feel reasonably comfortable in recommending the LSAT but it's only useful for law school admissions. If you're applying to multiple programs, dual degree programs and all the schools you're interested in except the gre. Alex Jablonski: And there's data available that shows how to use it. And that is true in some cases. then, the g GRE could be a more attractive option because you can use it for multiple kinds of graduate programs. About half of schools except the GRE. Everybody excepts the LSAT Alex Jablonski: they cost about the same GRE is a little bit more expensive Alex Jablonski: the LSAT has a better fee. We have a program. But the GRE does have a fee waiver reduction. GRE has better free prep materials than else that does Alex Jablonski: so it's you know, there's there's reasons to choose either one here is offered every day. You can take them whenever you want. The LSAT is offered only a few fixed times per year, but both are offered remotely and in testing centers, though one thing to note for the LSAT is that the testing center, the nearest testing center for the LSAT is in Syracuse. So if you're gonna be on campus in Alex Jablonski: Ithaca. you have to find a way to negotiate that, unless, of course, you go home somewhere and take it there. Alex Jablonski: Senior year. Okay? So we'll get into the final stage. You're gonna finalize that list of schools really based on your numbers. You're gonna attend the law school fair again. Great opportunity connect with reps. Alex Jablonski: Maybe get some fee waivers. learn about schools. Alex Jablonski: Consider your finances, file the FASFA. I know it's been a mess this year, but, generally speaking, you would want to file it as soon as it becomes available in an application here, and really start to make a plan for how you're going to manage the cost of law school applications. Alex Jablonski: the cost of law school. Alex Jablonski: Are you going to defray those costs of attendance. There's lots of good financial planning resources. We do tend to run a paying for law school session every fall company called Access-Lex. It's a nonprofit that works in that space. So highly recommend that you attend that as well. Prepare those applications, you know, so you'll go through all the application documents. I'll do another session later. This semester where we go into this and in depth Alex Jablonski: but, generally speaking, the materials look kind of like your undergrad admissions. Did you have a couple of essays? Resume Alex Jablonski: transcripts? Your recommend letters? Recommendation one thing to say about this now is that in the wake of the Supreme Court decision on affirmative action what used to be a relatively consistent process, meaning that schools generally ask the same questions has totally exploded. Alex Jablonski: and schools are asking all different kinds of questions. So one thing, one word of caution here is that as you go into the application cycle. Make sure you leave yourself plenty of time to look at the different questions available to you, and allow time to draft and prepare documents in the cycle. Many people feel Alex Jablonski: compelled to apply September 1st, which is not required, but that's when applications open. But you're not gonna have a lot of time to adjust. Alex Jablonski: If you're really shooting for an early September deadline, we see that born out this year, the application trends this year, people are applying much later  than they did last cycle, you know, for a number of reasons, but one of them is because of the the changes in the prompts Alex Jablonski: applications are accepted on a rolling basis. If you take nothing else away from this session, hope you take a lot from it. But one thing to know. Alex Jablonski: Whenever you decide to apply whatever year you decide to apply. Alex Jablonski: apply early. That means end of October end of November. That timeframe Halloween -Thanksgiving, if you want to think about it that way. Alex Jablonski: Applications are accepted on rolling basis, which means that as soon as schools start getting them they start giving offers. They've been slower and slower about doing this every year the last few years. But this is still true. So the earlier you get in Alex Jablonski: higher you are on their list, the more generous maybe they're feeling, certainly, the more money they have at their disposal. So it really pays to apply early Alex Jablonski: around this time of year, particularly. I mean, we're mid March now. But this would have started for me in February. If people are coming to me around that time of year. Alex Jablonski: I'm starting to talk less about finishing this cycle, and more about applying Alex Jablonski: in the next cycle. This will just be in a more advantageous position. Alex Jablonski: You decide where to attend. So hopefully, you get some offers of admission. Maybe some scholarship offers you. You can negotiate those offers that's good to know. Attend, Admitted Students Day programmings. Investigate housing options. Submit your deposit. Deposits are typically due April 15th and later. But April 15th Is kind of to May 1st this usual first deposit deadline timeframe. Alex Jablonski: Send your final grades. Anything else attend in the fall. Right law school, almost always without exception, starts in the fall. There are a couple of summer and spring start programs. But it's it's unusual. Alex Jablonski: Can you take time off another big question we get all the time. Yes, absolutely. Can you take a gap year. Can you take a bridge year which we're increasingly trying to call it? Yes, you can. You could take more than one Alex Jablonski: last year last application cycle, 74% of our applicants were applying after they'd graduated. So three-quarters the vast majority, I think we're comfortable in saying that that's the vast majority Alex Jablonski: of people apply after they graduate. Alex Jablonski: And that's this is a little higher than the national average, which is somewhere in the 60% range but it's instructive Alex Jablonski: that most people applying after they graduate, and it runs counter to what most people think, which is that most people apply as seniors. So there's a lot of pressure to do that. There are complications that come with applying after you graduate. You know you have to figure out what you're going to do in that, in that bridge time loans can go into repayment. That's something to negotiate and to figure out Alex Jablonski:  But these are in a lot of cases, manageable problems, things we could certainly talk about, and so they could often recommend. You know, the the bridge here can give you time to prepare. It can give you time to do important things. You wanted to get done before you go to law school. That's really key. Alex Jablonski: I can give you time to get more experience. If you're coming to this interest later. If you're coming to this interest as a senior, I mean, there's no reason to whip around and put in law school application. Take the time you need happy to talk that through, but a couple of recommendations for me thinking about this. Alex Jablonski: Get those letters of recommendation before you leave. You can upload them to the system. They're not purged. We've confirmed that with LSAC, so they'll stay on the system. Take your test around graduation, if possible, because you're still in that test, taking mindset and structure that time in a meaningful way. Find something to do. That's meaningful to you. That accounts for that time that could be Alex Jablonski: making money to save up, to go to law school totally legitimate, perfect way to use your time. and there are lots of other things to do as well. Alex Jablonski: But again, just like with the preparatory set we talked about. There's nothing in particular law schools are looking for here. Alex Jablonski: The big question. that I think for me motivates everything. I've just said. Alex Jablonski: everything we say about preparation. Alex Jablonski: all the emphasis we place on really making sure this is the right decision that you thought it through, that you've got Alex Jablonski: telling motivation for you. It convinces you that this is the right decision. All comes down to this question of how much law school costs. and, in short, it's a lot. Law school is expensive, very expensive. Here's a semi-random sampling of schools that our students attend. Alex Jablonski: And you can see in that middle column that over the course of 3 years estimated. Alex Jablonski: we're seeing Alex Jablonski: total costs of attendance, which is a particular term. This isn't necessarily the full cost. It's just the technical cost of attendance Alex Jablonski: anywhere between $200,000 -$350,000, right? So it's a really expensive proposition. You can see tuition there on the left is very high. Alex Jablonski: The estimated living expenses. these 2 factors together go together to compute this cost of attendance, which is a a a set number Alex Jablonski: the school has to publish because this is the max amount of money you can borrow in Federal loans. Alex Jablonski: Every school says this is our cost of attendance, so that's the maximum amount you can get. So that's really important doesn't mean you have to borrow the Max amount. Alex Jablonski: But that's the cap important to note that those living expenses usually only apply to the 9 months of the academic year and not the summer. So sometimes those were higher. Every school, though you can see even schools that are in the same Alex Jablonski: City, Boston College and Harvard have wildly different expectations for what your living expenses are gonna look like. Alex Jablonski: You can see, though interestingly, between these schools, most students are receiving aid, Alex Jablonski: you know, in some of these places 80 -90% are receiving aid of some kind. So this is a more complicated picture of how much it costs than just the sticker price. None of those are 100%. Some people are paying sticker price, but it's usually more complicated than that. Alex Jablonski: How do you pay for it? One thing I like to start off with is usually, you know, people will say, well. I'm gonna make a lot of money as an attorney. Alex Jablonski: and that's gonna pay for it. And that's true. For some. It really is. Alex Jablonski: Increasingly, you know, you see, people going into big law, which admittedly is a very popular pursuit coming out of Cornell. Those starting salaries being, you know, you can see here these peaks on the right hand side of the graph, between $200,000 -$215,000. I mean that starting salary Alex Jablonski: will put you in a position over 5 or 8 years to to, you know, to get rid of that possible debt. Alex Jablonski:  even so. Not an easy Alex Jablonski: debt to  discharge. But you can see as well that there's a large peak to the left side of the graph bulking, you know, around $70,000 or so is another little peak around $100,000. But we're seeing really $70,000 there. $75,000. Alex Jablonski: These are starting salaries for graduates. Alex Jablonski: that's 80%. Alex Jablonski: 80, 80 75 to 80% of starting lawyers make salaries somewhere in that range. And then you've got that particular big law, big firms into the the white shoe firms, making, you know the high salaries. But Alex Jablonski: it really depends as well on the kind of work that you're doing. If you're going into nonprofit work, if you're going into what we call public interest work. Alex Jablonski: those even the most prestigious positions pay less. and private firms smaller private firms pay less than the big ones. So it really varies. This is to say, basically, that you can't just count on salary. Alex Jablonski: and your picture of repayment is going to vary, depending on the kind of employment that you're looking at. and if you're going in with certain kinds of employment in mind, it may change the way you consider schools and their offers. Because this is an important context. Alex Jablonski: 76% of graduates use loans. So even with those scholarships that we saw. So you know, again, the vast majority Alex Jablonski: take out loans of some kind and the average amount borrowed over 3 years is almost $150,000. Now we saw the cost is, you know, $250 to $350,000. Okay. Alex Jablonski: you know, two-thirds and a half. but still a considerable amount of money taken out in loans, and this some people are bringing in undergraduate loan debt Alex Jablonski: that gets added to this composite. So this is a considerable amount of money most people are taking out. Obviously it ranges, you know, up to or above sticker price and much lower than this. Alex Jablonski: But this is this is why we talk about this. This is why we place such an emphasis on preparations. Because it's an expensive proposition. It's an investment that you wanna make sure you are able. You have a clear idea of the return you're looking for. Alex Jablonski: So how do you pay for it? Scholarships. We've been kind of talking around this. Schools offer merit and need based scholarships Alex Jablonski: depending on the school. You know, depending on where they sit the rankings with their policies. Schools may offer more or less merit aid versus need based aid. Alex Jablonski: Many students, as we saw, receive aid, but very few receive full tuition. So most people are taking up money. Alex Jablonski: External scholarships are also available. So there's a link here to a database that compiles those Alex Jablonski: definitely look, yeah, important to look into. But after that we're talking loans. If you, if you're able to secure federally subsidized loans that puts you on the path Alex Jablonski: to Federal relief programs. You're the most prominent being Public Service Loan forgiveness. Do you end up doing nonprofit work? But other, you know, income driven repayment programs to the Federal Government will Alex Jablonski: reduce your monthly burden and put you on a way to loan forgiveness potentially. It can be on anywhere from a 10 to a 25 year time one. But those programs do exist. Alex Jablonski: Private loans typically have wildly different, They typically do not put you on the path to any of these. Federal Alex Jablonski: programs! You're only looking at debt, driven repayment models. Interest rates can vary between those. So it really depends on your particular situation. But generally we Alex Jablonski: right, point people toward the Federal loans. And then after that, it's savings strategic planning. Can you live at home. Is there a way to defer those living expenses? Roommates? So they're living situations. Alex Jablonski: parts time potentially the law school working while you go, which is difficult, really difficult to do, but some people do. Alex Jablonski: But it's a big task. However, you're approaching it. It's a big task Alex Jablonski: that leads us into. How do you navigate that big task in this whole project, and that is, you can do it with the help of a pre-law advisor. So Alex Jablonski: people like myself at Cornell. We're really fortunate to have a large team here can help you do everything from that exploratory piece Alex Jablonski: through networking, through researching and preparing your documents, through submitting your applications. Considering your decisions, negotiating scholarships, basically anything we've talked about here. Alex Jablonski: we we can be an asset for you, not the only member of your team. You know. There are lots of people around to support you other people we can point you to. But a central member of your team, I think, and I would strongly encourage you to connect with me, to connect with Dana, to connect with any of quite a few advisers that we have around campus. So myself and Dana. We sit in the central office. We see all Alex Jablonski: alumni. all current students, and then you could see our colleagues, who sit in a number of the different colleges around campus. Alex Jablonski: Feel free to use any of us, all of us. Alex Jablonski: We'd be glad to work too. Couple of quick things about Career Services. So we're in Barnes Hall, central offices in Barnes Hall, right across from Willard Strait. You can make Alex Jablonski: appointments not just for pre-law, but for all different kinds of topics related to career development. Alex Jablonski: we have an online tool kit which includes modules about all different kinds of things. I will, I will send these slides to you. If you register through Zoom, I'll send this to you. Alex Jablonski: If this is if you're watching the recording after the fact email me and I will send them to you. But we have an online toolkit Alex Jablonski: where you can find modules on pre-law, but also so many different career, related topics. And then, finally, there's a list of resources which you'll be able to access. Once I send this to you Alex Jablonski: resources for exploring and preparing researching schools, paying for law school. There's Access-Lex, like I mentioned. Alex Jablonski: and then some job placement and resources and salary info, which is where it pulls in that that data from. Alex Jablonski: So we'll cut it there. I'm gonna end the recording. So we will bid farewell to our colleagues who are watching this in the future. Good questions.