I'm Dara, I am the Assistant Director in the ILR Office of Career Services. And today we're presenting finding inclusive employers, alumni tips and current trends. And Mia and I both work in Career Services on campus. And we're very excited to welcome Nicole Smart, who earned her and NYC-MPS ILR in 2015. And Ulysses Smith who was an A&S grad '14 and an AAP grad '14. And we'll let them introduce themselves a bit as well. Before we get started, I just really would like to, I'd like to take a moment to acknowledge the passing of Shawn West. We know this is a very difficult time for many students. And we feel this across, this loss across Cornell. There's always a wide range of feelings, needs, and reactions when facing loss. And if you need support, please explore Cornell's available resources at caringcommunity.cornell.edu. We encourage you to reach out if you need it. In terms of today's presentation, as Mia mentioned, the portion of the event where we're all presenting will be reported. And then the second part portion with questions, it will either still be recorded and we'll just cut it or we'll just stop the recording. If you have questions throughout the presentation, At any point during the presentation on the slides, please feel free to go into the chat and send your questions via direct message to Jeff Crosby. He's going to be compiling any questions and interjecting during the presentation to address those questions if they're not covered, in other slides. And we will also be sending out resources that we discussed either throughout the presentation or if you think of additional resources after the fact. So please make sure to check your email for those. And the chat. Next slide. So today's presentation. Cornell is really focused on supporting students with all identities. And we want our students to feel prepared and supported and ready to face the world of work after they graduate. It is imperative that a very large focus be on inclusion in the workplace and providing resources to all of you to really make sure that you are both confident and prepared going into the workforce to address some of these hard issues. Our goal is to today, is to really help give some information and an overview on how to infuse equity research into every aspect of the job and internship search. So from everywhere at any point, regardless of where you are in your career development, this is something that you can engage in. So if you're a first year student who is really just starting to explore careers, or you're further on and starting to apply for internships or you're graduating. Or if you're a graduate student, or maybe you've had a few years experience, et cetera. It really, the process may look really different depending on what your needs are, what your interests are, what your identity is, are, and also what sectors and industries you might be exploring, as well as the size of the organizations. Next slide please. Okay. So first things first, for any student who is trying to identify which employers are really, actually inclusive. And by that we mean that they're not just sorry. I think my two-year-old baby gate. First things first, is to really create your priority list. So depending on what your identities are, how you identify, what your family needs might be, and any other factors. It's important to identify where you're, where certain factors or criteria lie on your priorities that you're looking for in an employer. Nicole is going to join me now to speak about career anchors as a part of that priority list. Thank you so much, Dara. Hi everyone. So, when you think about creating your priority list in terms of career anchors, career anchors are essentially what you're good at. Motives, values. It's a assessment of self concept that you acquire over some time when it comes to your experience growing up, your academic experience, if you've had some work experience as well, you develop a sense of framework in terms of what you value, what you're motivated, what you're motivated by, and what you're good at. So for example, when it comes to your challenge, when it comes to skill and competency, what are some of the things that you've learned in terms of what you do really well when it comes to teamwork, decision-making, communication, leadership, etc. Some of you may have known if you've done some research, I come from a background in professional sports and these are some of the, these are some of the core values of student athletes and athletes. Professional athletes have as well that are transferable into the workplace. So what are some of the things that you know that you're good at? And the beauty of diversity is that we all have our own unique strengths and abilities. There's weakness, I hate that word. What makes us very unique and valuable contributors, especially within an organization, is that we have these, these unique strengths within ourselves. So career anchors. Knowing what you're good at, conducting self-assessment, psychometric assessments when it comes to strength finders and knowing what motivates you. For example, and just using myself as an example, when I did strength finders, I learned that one of the key qualities was that I'm a lifelong learner, right? Despite the last name Smart. I mean, it's pretty obvious, but learner is one of the factors in terms of how you rate within taking the assessments. So what I've learned is that if I go a day without learning, because one of my strengths is that I need to learn something and the process of learning is actually more fun than the actual outcome. But if I go a day without learning, it's like okay, I'm, I'm not motivated. What happened? I feel like I've wasted a day. So learning is one aspect and ideation as well as what I learned about myself in terms of being open or being a contributor when it comes to innovation and creativity and a lot of different spaces. So know what your strengths are, know what motivates you, right? Because our brains are wired in the way that we are. And then what your motives are. What do you truly desire about a career aspiration? For me, for example, working in professional live theater with some people saying, with me having the experience working professional live theater, some people want a career in entertainment, but what does that mean? Why is that so passionate for you? Is it because of the recognition? Okay. You work on Broadway, you work for the NFL, you work that NBA, et cetera. But what is your career aspiration? What drives you within that space, right? So really having a real talk within yourself as far as what, what's driving you based on your experiences thus far, if you're just starting out and as we navigate and go on within your career, you're just building on that and it's okay to evolve because we're always evolving as individuals. And then the last part is the values, right? What do you consider that's most important when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, when it comes to supporting workplace culture, when it comes to an organization that supports career and professional development. All of these things are what you have to assess within yourself to really identify what your anchors are. Because the anchors, when you think of an anchor on a ship, it's what keeps it grounded, what keeps it sturdy in place, whatever that entails, whatever that means for you. But for everything that we do, we need to have some level of foundation within those spaces. And this is something that I utilize and I actually learned throughout my career as I became aware of Edgar Schein, I believe it is who, Edgar Schein and Van Maanen who developed this career self-assessment. It's a really useful tool when it comes to personal development. But I always say, know thyself in going after career, not because it's trending, but because it's something that's aligned with all of the key factors. What are you good at, your motives and your values? Absolutely. Thank you, Nicole. I'll actually stay on this slide for a second. In terms of thinking about your needs related to inclusion within the workplace, think about what your current needs are and what your future holds may be. So for example, when you're creating your priority list of kind of, when you're thinking about it, when you're thinking about both inclusion from an employer perspective and what kind of culture you want to be in and what kind of supports  you'd like to have in place, and what kind of environment you're looking for in an employer, think about your must-haves, your nice-to-haves, and your way down at the bottom, they're important for other people but not really for me pieces. And that may look like things like, for example, if you are single at the moment, in the LGBTQ, and you identify as LGBTQA, what are your needs now as a single individual, but what might be your needs later and how might that be impacted by your employer's inclusivity practices? So for example, thinking about, okay, I need to be thinking about what the health insurance looks like and things of that nature. If you have a disability, for example, thinking about if that visibility, how that currently plays a role in your life and how it may play a role in the future and how that may play a role in your employment. And what does that look like? So really thinking about taking some intentional time to really reflect on your priority list as it pertains to inclusivity, so that you can then approach your search and approach your review of employers in a really intentional way. So when we are talking about assessing organizations' inclusivity, we're talking about from the perspective of while you're researching careers that may be interested in, and there might be a really wide variety, right? So you may have a huge array of industries and sectors and types of organizations that interest you. Or there may be really really specific, you may have a really specific focus. Regardless, what we're hoping to approach today is how you can really assess the individual employers within any of those industries or sectors to really assess where they land and whether they actually walk the talk of inclusivity, or if it's just something they say on their website. What we're going to be talking about today also will cover in terms of active searches. So for example, if you are currently in an internship or a job search, what are the things that you need to be really paying attention to as you're applying, choosing the positions to which you've applied. And it's really never too early to start. So for those of you who are early in your college careers, it's good to start thinking about these topics so that you can actually start doing some of that research now, even into full-blown industries. And then when it's time to do your searches, you'll be really prepared. And it's never too late, right? Even if you've already accepted an offer, for example, it doesn't mean it's too late to have these conversations and ask some of the questions that we're going to bring up today. So the first thing that we encourage you to do is really to critically review the mission statement and the job postings. And we want to think about a wide variety of things when you're looking at these. And we're going to send some resources related to some really strong examples of mission statements that portray equality and inclusivity practices within employers. And some that leave a lot to be desired. And some of the things that we really want to encourage you to consider are, is there a separate, more in-depth inclusion statement on their website or somewhere within their organization? And how does the company connect with, or organization I should say, connect with your particular values and needs. So when you're thinking about, when you're doing your research and looking at a mission statement and looking at a job posting, what are you seeing in terms of their values and do they align with yours? If you read a job statement and they just sort of, or a job posting, and they just sort of go through the perfunctory language that's required by law. That's one thing, right? But if they include something that is really promoting and encouraging diversity within the workplace, demonstrating their inclusivity practices, and demonstrating that they have a clear commitment to having an inclusive environment for everyone, that is significantly more meaningful oftentimes. The same with their mission statement, right? Does it just sort of have it embedded somewhere in it? Or does it make a point to really include the value of diversity and inclusion within this environment? Also, how tightly is diversity and inclusion woven into their actual mission, right? So it's not just about the mission statement, but also about how they're tying into to their culture and their, how they actually approach their work and approach the industry. You also want to think about where is this information living on the website, right? So, is it buried somewhere? Do they have an inclusivity statement? But it's sort of buried somewhere ten pages deep on the website where you really have to work to find it. Or do they proudly display it somewhere prominently on their website? You also want to look at their language choices. Are they taking a positive approach to addressing inclusivity and diversity. Are they making it just a part of their general culture? Or is it something where they're just sort of stating what they have to state? Next slide please. I'll pass this over to Mia to talk about website review. Awesome, thanks. So we're still kind of going through this, before the search, during the search, and kind of after you're invited to interview, we'll kind of go through that whole timeline today. We're still in the research process at this point. So, when you're looking at an employer's website, a company or organization, you want to look for a lot of different things. The identities of leadership and management roles, I think are very telling. It's one thing for an organization to say, Oh, we have a lot of racial diversity in our staff. But if all of that is at their entry-level or administrative staff and not their higher level management roles. That's an indicator that maybe they're not as equitable as they're claiming. Affinity groups as something else to look at for those of you that don't know what affinity groups are, those are more about, if you share a certain identity with other staff members. Oftentimes the organization will create a group or a platform of some kind for you all to connect together. These can be called lots of different things. Colleague network groups, employee resource groups, something along those lines, but they're typically on the HR website somewhere. And it's even telling what they include as an affinity group. If you're a veteran, do they have a group for that? If you have a disability, do they have a group for that? So sometimes the scope of what's included can also be telling. HR webpages, we already kinda touched on this. Is it beyond what's legally required of an equal opportunity employer or is it truly inclusive beyond that legal requirement? Are they doing it just because they have to, or because they truly wanted to welcome and include you. Prominence we've already talked about, images are something else you can take a look at. So we tried to be pretty intentional with our images in this PowerPoint even. But take a look at their website. Are they just stock photos that could be found anywhere. Is this actually their staff and their clients and who's represented in those photos? Organizations that they partner with, can also be telling, you know, do they have a company wide volunteering day that could say a lot about the company culture, both in terms that they give everyone the day off to do that, but also depending on who they partner with. It could even be something like their suppliers. Do they deliberately try to buy from minority or women-owned businesses? That tells something about their values and we'll transition to social media here in a moment. But even just this idea of what is deemed impressive enough to write about on a blog or a website or social media. What's, what's important enough or what's valued is often reflected in what they choose to, to highlight on their pages. So you can look for things like inclusive language like pronouns. I hate when people put he/she, like can we just switch to they? That's kind of  universally accepted now. So things like that are small but can sometimes be a good indicator. Or even if the site itself is not very user-friendly. And that's a pretty good indicator that maybe they're not going to be great with technology accessibility if you need accommodations for a disability. So lots of different things to look at on the website. Nicole, do you want to chime in with anything else? Yeah, I appreciate that, Mia. So anything when it comes to people with disabilities where I represent that community as well as having several invisible disabilities, where disability is kind of like the missing d in diversity, right? So when you look at a website, if there is a video being shown, subtitles or any type of language in terms of what's being said is also an indication that they are being inclusive and being mindful of potential people that can come work for the organization. When they go to your website and see that you're being inclusive in terms of even a video that you show that has subtitles. Yeah, that'll be something that we do before we post this video on our website, is we'll caption it and make sure that the captions are accurate. A lot of automatic actions are not very accurate. So that's kinda like one step up, right? The bare minimum is to caption it. The elevated commitment is to actually make sure that it says what the people were saying in the video. So Jeff, if you want to go ahead to the next slide, that'd be great. Obviously we've talked about how to read about the organization on their own site, but there's lots of other places you can find information about them. The Human Rights Campaign is a pretty well-known organization, but they have something called the corporate equality index. That can be a really great tool for those of you who are in the LGBT community. For you to gauge not just even a surface level, okay, do they have a rainbow on their website somewhere? But it really rates people, rates organizations on very specific factors, like, are gender-affirming surgeries covered in the health insurance policy? Is your domestic partner covered in your health insurance coverage? Things like that, that maybe you wouldn't see publicly on a website. The Human Rights Campaign uses to help rate companies on this list. So Fortune 500 companies are all in there and then any other company that ops in, so that's a really great resource if you have that identity, there's lots of others that are similar to that for different identities, but maybe a little bit less thorough. I'd say they're like the epitome of depth on their, on their ranking system. But there's others in our resource library as well on the Career Services website, if you want to check those out. InHerSight is one of those that's more focused on gender. I know a fair number of you mentioned in the poll that you were interested in that. So those are reviews from women who work at those companies. Some of them even have kind of like a social media element to them. Or you can post and talk to other women as opposed to just reading things, possibly. So some really cool sites here, there's a few different ones listed. Glassdoor is obviously also anonymous company reviews. But even just reading different news articles about the organization can say a lot about them. Think about who wrote it. Different perspectives of if it's a company who wrote it versus some outside news organization. And you might, maybe there's some cringy incident that happened and you're wondering how they improved since then. Ask some questions. We'll talk about who you might be able to talk to you to get answers to that. Maybe have they had a new leader since then? You might remember a couple years ago there's this big wave of universities like ousting their presidents and asking for new leadership who were more focused on diversity and inclusion. So those kinds of shifts can be pretty indicative of some things changing. This new leader has different values, things like that. Or you might even see a page, I love when they have these, they're kind of rare, but sometimes a company will not just have, here's our inclusion statement, but here's the actual action steps we take to implement this statement. Prove that they're not just all talk. Actually doing something tangible. So those are a few different perspectives to take, but you might even see on larger companies or even like a start-up, some kind of letter from the CEO or, you know, about our leader kind of a page. And what they focus on in there can be telling of what's the priorities for the leadership of the organization at that time. Sometimes they'll feature like different awards that they've won for various D&I related topics or identities. So there's lots of different ways to find out information about them. Even a simple Google search will give you a lot to go off of. So hopefully, it helps demystify some of these questions. And I think, Ulysses, did you want to chime in? Yeah, a couple things. And the first one doesn't totally contradict what you just said. Just a cautionary note, about best employer indices overall. Because what folks don't often realize is that companies have to actually pay to participate in a lot of these best employer indices, index rankings. And so sometimes they can be a little misleading. In so far as did, is the company that you're actually applying to work at, is there a reason they didn't participate? It might not be because they are not inclusive or they're not demonstrating this. It might just be because they don't see the sense in paying to be ranked against other organizations sometimes. So you really do have to take care in asking questions and looking a little bit deeper than just those. If you're really being kind of vigilant about your search, then look at the criteria that, that, that some of these indexes are actually, indexes is actually not plural, indices, that some of them are actually using, what are the criteria? It's powerful being ranked. It can, you know, HRC came under fire a few years ago because their ranking system was pretty cursory. But since then, they've gotten deeper and actually looked at elements of policies instead of whether or not an organization just had a policy in place, right? That's it. There's a big difference there. And others other times, other sites like Glassdoor, et cetera, can be helpful in hearing perspectives from sometimes current but more often than not former employees that can be somewhat helpful. But also just know that more often than not, when people are posting on Glassdoor, it's likely because they haven't had a good experience at some point and they didn't really have an outlet to say so. And so this is post my tenure at this organization. Now I'm, I'm going to say all the things because I didn't say it to anybody when I was there. Which can also be a flag for folks. If folks are, if folks now feel like these mechanisms were not in place at the organization, that says something, it speaks volumes. So paying attention to the news, probably much more helpful about, to see how an organization responds to current events and incidents of whether or not they talk about it at all. How they cover life at the organization, how much they value their workforce in people and how much they actually display that as opposed to just their product or service or good that they're putting out into the market. So that's my two cents. Great critical point. To ride that tail off of Ulysses' point in terms of criteria as well. It's very different across various platforms in terms of how they rate or give these ratings, but also to, to go above and beyond, right? And look for resources that support you in the work workplace. So for example, catalyst.org. Focused on women and research and study within the workplace, but not specific where, you know, with anyone within the space. Women and men can go there and get some information that they need because there is a need for sponsorship when it comes to women. Getting the sponsorship that they need from men as allies within the workplace. And also for women to get the proper resources that they need in terms of their career trajectory or aspiring for a career in whatever area there is, there's a level of research that's out there that can support you. And then also with McKinsey and Company, for example, I believe in collaboration with catalyst, where they put out the women in the workplace report every year for the past five or six years, if I'm correct, where it talks about the traction or lack thereof of women advancing within leadership roles and the broken rung, right? Before you even get started or get into those management positions, there's already a disadvantage. So knowledge is key in terms of how you conduct your research. Yes, it's great to have all of these resources as well. But looking above and beyond what you can do as an individual and through the lens of diversity, equity and inclusion and how you identify to really get ahead of the game in terms of being successful in your career. Yeah. Thanks for bringing those pieces up too because a good indices will always give you the, the place where they got their information from, or what things people or companies are being rated on. So do your research. There's usually somewhere, maybe even a really small link to like, here's how we came up with these rankings. And some, you don't have to pay to participate in. Others you do. Some you can pay to get a higher spot. So don't even pay attention to those that are totally biased, right? So great points about like what's, what's the most reliable source of information? And what's maybe a little bit more skeptical. So we're going to shift from kind of passive information gathering now to the next slide is more about asking questions and that's kinda where we're going to be for the rest of our time together. So asking around is one of your best tools out there. Like Ulysses said, some people on Glassdoor are bitter. So you might be getting really extreme reviews at one end or the other of the continuum. But it's great to ask Cornell Alumni. We have plenty of resources and recorded presentations from the past. I'm happy to meet with you about how to use LinkedIn to find Cornell alums who would be willing to talk to you about their experience at a certain company or maybe with a given identity. Sometimes LinkedIn doesn't have that information. CUeLINKS is a great Cornell specific resource that have a few more specific filters like, I'm interested in talking about first-gen student status. If that's something you care about, CUeLINKS is going to have that filter for you. So those are both good tools to find different people to talk to you. But these are just some of the questions that you might want to ask to get that firsthand knowledge perspective. And it can be a Cornell alum, or it could be just a random person who works for that organization that maybe you can either visibly tell, shares an identity with you or maybe they have a blog about some marginalized identity that they have. So I'm not going to read each of these questions, we'll send you this slide deck to, to reference for future, future use. But really getting a perspective about their own individual experience at that specific company. Especially as you start kind of narrowing your focus to a specific industry or a handful of companies. This is a great step to take to either decide whether or not you want to apply or maybe inform what questions you might ask at the interview. Or even once you get an offer and you're not sure whether or not you want to accept it. These are just a few questions that are helpful to ask and we'll talk about more that you can ask directly at the interview as well. One thing to keep in mind as you're choosing people to talk to is how different perspectives will vary depending on who you talk to, like their seniority in the organization. So an entry-level person maybe just started there and might be willing to be a little bit more honest with you, is going to be different than the CEO or the recruiting manager. They're going to want to showcase their organization in the best light possible. They might not be as honest. So think about not only who's most likely to be honest, but also who you're comfortable talking to. Maybe you want to find someone with a shared identity or someone who feels more approachable in terms of similar age or something. So just a few things to keep in mind as you're looking for people to ask. Lots of ways to find helpful folks aside from our two great alums on our call today. Now I think I will be passing it over to Ulysses, take it away! I just can't underscore enough the importance of asking questions and being extremely critical, and Nicole's definitely going to go into more detail around the questions you can ask, but it's so, never be afraid to reach out to somebody, Cornell or not. Utilize LinkedIn or whatever other means you have, just because people are a lot more willing to actually respond to questions than you might think. I'll never forget, I had a recruiter who pinged me, who now, who is now a recruiter at the organization where I work, who pinged me on LinkedIn one day and said, hey, one of your recruiters reached out to me for a role. But I really need to know from you because I looked at the numbers on the website, what is it like to be black at this organization? Like what's the experience like? That's somebody who is incredibly authentic and very real and really just wanted some information. And my response was, let's hop on a call, right? Let's hop on a call and let's talk about it. I'm happy to do that because that's important to people. And it also says that maybe we're not doing the best job of showcasing, right? Or showing what life is like at the organization. So that's actually good feedback for us as a company, right? About other changes that we need to make. When you get to the interview stage, just know, when you're framing your interview. This is not about when you're on the on-site. This is not actually about your skill set at this point. By the time you're at an on-site interview, everybody knows you can do the job. At this point, we're more concerned about values alignment, we're more concerned about, I hate to say, it's not culture fit, that's not what we're looking for. It's about the additive value of somebody to the culture. So what are we thinking about when we think culture add, what's the perspective you're going to bring? How are you going to challenge us as an organization and help us grow both personally and professionally, right? So that's what we're thinking about here. So going with that frame of mind, it's just as much about you interviewing the organization as it is them interviewing you. And I'm sure you've heard that a ton of times at this point, but it's something that's really important to underscore. And we take note in our feedback and in our debriefs, our candidate debriefs, about the questions that people ask, right? Because it's really important to see how critically are people thinking. Did they do their research or around the organization? Do they actually, are they checking for the behaviors that we, that support the values that we've espoused are important to us. How well are we, how consistent are we being in this process? And how consistent and authentic are they being in this process? How do people actually answer your questions and who are the people who are really interviewing you? If folks are only sending one demographic to interview you, that should be concerning on many levels, right? One, because it could signal one of two things. One, the organization doesn't have a diverse workforce that they can't really send anybody else. Or they're only sending people who look like me as a means to cater to me. And that comes off as disingenuous or inauthentic because that's not representative of who I'm actually going to be working with and collaborating with on a regular basis, right? So check for that level of authenticity there, right? For me, I navigate the world as an unapologetically gay black man. So there are many things going back to what Nicole was saying about career anchors and values that are really important to me that I want to pay attention to, right? And I need to know when I show up in an organization, is it going to be a problem if I show up as my full, my full authentic self? Is it going to be an issue or is my identity actually going to hinder me from being successful at the organization in some capacity? Am I going to be supported in that journey? And are people willing to engage with me around identity so that we can ultimately get to better outcomes? These are all questions that we have to think about. Some organizations might actually be a bit more hierarchical than others, right? And I think some of what Mia was referencing earlier about senior roles versus kind of entry-level roles and other folks. That really depends on the org. Cornell as an example, this is an extremely hierarchical organization, right? Everybody has a fancy title and you know kind of where people are, where people sit based on that org. But in other organizations like my own, it, it's not so much so, even though we are fairly large, what's important to us is transparency and accessibility of our leadership team, how we communicate that to people and how open all of our Slack channels are, and how open our decision-making process is. These are questions you can actually ask folks. Who's involved in decision-making? Do people actually get context around the decisions that are being made and why? Do you have entry level staff involved in those decisions? Just as much as anybody else is or have access to those venues where decisions are actually being made. Do you share company numbers around performance? And around demographics, right? How people are doing, how well we're tracking against business goals, and how forthcoming is your prospective employer about all of this information during your interview process. Because if they're not forthcoming about this information, that's probably going to, for me, that would be a big flag because that signals to me, I'm probably not going to get all the information I need to make informed decisions when I'm doing my job. But I'm certainly not getting an informed decision and getting enough information to make an informed and intelligent, intelligent decision about where I want to work at this particular moment in time, right? So these are some of those things to think about and take some, those of you who have a lot of marginalized identities, really take stock of and take note of the things that people should not be asking you at all, right? Here's some big no-nos in an interview process, people can not ask you about things related to your identity, around protected status categories especially. So if somebody is asking you about your family status or whether or not you're married or single or have children, or you're a caretaker or you have dependence, whatever that might be. Those are questions people can not ask you, right? Because they can't make employment decisions based upon any stereotypes that they might project upon you based on those arbitrary factors. And if you get a sense that that's happening or somebody's asking questions like that, respectfully withdraw from the process because that's probably not so, that's probably not a place you want to work, right? That's different than you asking questions about identity and about how people show up and are able to show up, right? So two very different things, but just take note of that when you're asking around and specifics. So I think I pass it over to Nicole unless there's anything else you want to add here. I don't want to miss anything. I think I can supplement a lot of what you've said which overlaps with where I was going in terms of representation, et cetera, but certainly key when it comes to asking the right questions and being able to be in a space where you want to be able to be your authentic self when you come into these interview processes. If you're not able, if you don't feel comfortable asking the questions that you want to ask to learn more about how do you define your organizational culture or how do staff live it or how does the organization live it? Or you're pressing the issue or you're asking follow-up questions because it's not being articulated and the information is not being translated to you carefully then that's something that you want to be concerned about because every member of the hiring team during the interview process should be eloquently and articulately be able to really give you insight in terms of what DEI which are mutually exclusive terms, what that means for the organization, how they live it, how they breathe it, how to cultivate it, how they support diversity within the workplace. Because again, going back to DEI being a mutually exclusive term, where you can't have diversity without having an equitable level playing field. You can't have equity where where you don't have fair treatments within the workplace. You can have inclusion, which is the invisible thread that binds it all together. If you're saying you're hiring for diversity and you're lacking in those different areas, it's not going to be sustainable, it's not going to work. And this is where a lot of people, organizations get tied up, is if we staff training on diversity, equity and inclusion topics, that's another thing in terms of possible questions to ask where that is an indication that the organization is very supportive of the workplace culture when it comes to giving everyone the ability to develop their skill set or, or understand what DEI entails, right? Because a lot of people still are stuck on the idea that DEI, or hiring to diversity is about hiring the next woman, or person of color, when it goes beyond that. Some of the protected classes that Ulysses referenced earlier in terms of race, age, gender, or sexual orientation, disability, et cetera. There are certain questions that you cannot ask an individual when it comes to the interview process. So when it comes to staff training on DEI, what does that mean for the organization? Do people really understand what that entails and how it aligns with the purpose and core values of that organization? What are you doing to actively ensure all staff members are included, right? Does everyone have a seat at the table when you have these meetings? If there's a culture where you have a homogeneous team or group or organization where they're not very, they're not a lot of women within those spaces. Are you being inclusive in terms of how you, you're including women and hearing their voice, or are you over-talking them? Are they being credited for their contributions to whatever discussion is being had, right? So actively ensuring that all staff members feel included can be something as simple as sitting in a meeting, whatever your practice, whatever your rituals, whatever your norms are within that. And if women are not speaking up, as men as allies, for example, asking for the women, the woman on the team for their opinion as well, and trying to get them to be a part of that process. How are people being held accountable or awarded for diversity and inclusion measures? Create a system in the workplace where people not necessarily monetary, because monetary is not something that, you know, it's all good to have money. I'm not trying to say that. I don't want to get paid for what I do. But it doesn't have to be something that is monetary. It can be something as simple as, I just had a call about this earlier. It can be something as simple as recognition to a team for doing great work for XYZ in terms of DEI and how it aligns with what organization is doing. Do you have a chief diversity officer or other executive leader with the diversity focus which is key and are they are they reporting to the CEO of the organization? Because the CEO and why that's important, why that's driven and why a lot of people advocate for this is because, that is the direct line of communication when it comes to influencing organizational behavior. Behavior when it comes to changes in management, when it comes to really getting the ear within the C-suite and that alignment with the CEO of the organization to make sure that there is buy-in, there's support, there's visibility and that they understand what's happening. And you're in that space where you're able to advocate, where the CEO or not you are, but the CEO is able to advocate within that space when it comes to diversity focus. Does the organization actively support diverse suppliers, contractors, and small businesses? Again, going above and beyond, instead of just writing the standard CEO statement on a job description on the website, we support diversity and that's it. This is, this is the next level in terms of being proactive versus reactive and showing intent in terms of, of having, supporting diverse suppliers, whether it's minority, women-owned, small businesses, et cetera. Going the extra mile. And do you complete annual compensation equity analysis? There's this huge, huge push for, for, for equal pay when it comes to women, for example, doing the same work as men or other people in various levels of positions who are not equally paid even though they're doing the same level of work. There's a lot of things that need to be done within the space. And if any organization, any organization can articulate this information, even more shows their intent in wanting to do the right thing in terms of writing, essentially righting the wrongs and moving forward in a progressive state where everyone can thrive and succeed and meet the goals and business objectives of the organizations. And what resources has your organization provided to employees in support of COVID-19 and racial injustices? Resources in terms of, we're in the midst of the pandemic still, are you supportive of your, your black and African-American employees? Your Asian employees as well, who are faced with a lot of hate crimes that's happening. The racial injustices that we, that we see that sparked the racial reckoning last year with the death of Mr. George Floyd and the continuous events that are occurring as of today. What are the resources that the organization, when it comes to even social media, when it comes to mental health and wellness, when it comes to utilizing the virtual spaces. Maybe the CEO saying, okay, today, this happened, everyone, please sign off 30 minutes or an hour before your regular business day because it's been a lot. We want to be supportive of our black, African-American community, are Asian community, whoever is at a disadvantage or under-represented. So those are some of the key things where if you're hearing, if you're doing your due diligence and reaching out to networks to learn more about the organizations. These are some of the key things that are going to tell you exactly what that workplace culture is like because culture is key. Culture eats strategy for breakfast and it actually is in line with diversity, equity and inclusion because you can try to put all the strategies out there and make it stick, whatever you want, but it's not going to be sustainable if you don't have a workplace culture that can cultivate that work environment. Now we just threw a lot at you, but, but I think the big thing, that's the thing that's so important here that we're trying to convey is that especially right now with everything, all that was 2020 and it still feels like it's December 100 and whatever 2020. Yeah, it's really challenging to cut through the noise, right? And actually understand what an organization's values are, what their stances on things, what approaches they're taking and how much they value this, is if you didn't see the news, right when COVID-19 actually hit, DEI roles plummeted on LinkedIn and Glassdoor. Something like 60 something percent, they were taken off or entirety of departments were done away with, which is ironic, given that during a global pandemic, one would think that the thing people would prioritize the most, is making sure that people were able to foster that connection and have, and still feel like they belong at the organization. But now we're seeing this kind of interesting transition where boom, all of a sudden, 60 something percent, these roles have now skyrocketed in the wake of this 60 something percent, right? And so it's hard to see who's really being authentic when it comes to their investment in DEI work, that's why it's important that you take stock of what's important to you, what your values are and ask questions, right? Be critical, right? Ask questions. More often than not, depending on your organization or the website or whoever you're looking at. Depending on your role, you're probably not going to engage with somebody in HR. That's likely, you're probably going to talk to a recruiter or a hiring manager, neither of whom are probably going to be an HR business partner, or somebody who's really a shepherd of that process. And if it's a fairly large, you're probably going to even talk to a recruiting coordinator and probably not the recruiter. In some cases around getting answers to some questions unless you're in the interview itself. So, but you can still, if the organization, I know my own organization, we don't actually have an HR, public HR website, all that information is internal. But we do share quite a bit of other information around our perks and benefits. What life is like it, there are lots of pieces for people to read about that. But you can still ask these questions to whoever you're in contact with during that process to understand what are some of the specific strategies that they're using to reach out to folks. How do they find you? Or did you apply directly? What are the demographics if those are not publicly available. Why are they not publicly available in 2020? 2021? Why are they not publicly available at this juncture? Because they probably should be. I really hit or miss on dress codes at organizations. I think it's GM who had, whose dress code was dress appropriately and that was it. So that's how I'm going to leave it. But if you're in a circumstance where your wardrobe actually matters, say you're in a lab or whatever circumstance that might be, then let's talk about that. But that really comes into play when we're talking about gender expression in particular, right? And so ask questions around that, is that going to be a problem? Am I able to show up and be that way? What is a support that that's given to folks with dependence, whether it's children or parents and caring for an older parent, whatever that might be. What is that support? Is there wellness coverage? That was something that Nicole mentioned, right. Do we give people a stipend for working from home, right. Are meals covered, your Wi-Fi covered? Do you have mental health perks and benefits? Are fertility benefits covered, particularly for LGBTQ folks, right? Is the organization contracted with an insurance provider that is allowed to discriminate against LGBTQ folks in certain jurisdictions. Is that the case? What protections does the organization put in place for you, right? Around healthcare in particular. And how robust are the offerings? Do they go beyond just the typical kind of, the typical coverage? And do they offer a whole lot more that you typically in some states actually don't see? Diversity of celebrations. Like what holidays are celebrated? What observances are actually recognized throughout the workday? How are people invited to participate in those celebrations, or do we even talk about it openly at all? What does that look like? And then finally, like if people believe differently for, around a ton of things, that's the uncomfortable part of diversity is that you're actually going to come across people who do not believe the same things you do. In certain cases, like vehemently disagree with you, right? But how does your organization allow for those perspectives to actually take place? An asterisk here, I don't mean when people are legitimately questioning your humanity. That's not what I mean by welcoming that dialogue. What I mean is when people just simply disagree with you or believe something actually a little differently because of a religious perspective, for example, right? How are those perspectives welcomed and encouraged and leveraged for the benefit of your own personal professional development, but also for the development of the organization itself. So these are all questions you can continue to address, but in addition to asking HR, ask some other folks to get some of their answers too. Exactly, and then also if I may jump in, utilize those social media platforms that was referenced earlier in terms of how the organization celebrates diversity holidays. Juneteenth last year was the first time that a lot of organizations, organizations took on an approach to actually include that as a part of the annual list of holiday time off schedules in light of what happened, but look at what it took to get there. We won't get into that. But diversity celebrations and even right now where Ramadan is being celebrated as well, is there any type of reference to that on their social media platforms, on their website as well. Even in terms of beliefs, you know, if you represent a particular faith where it's required that certain times of day you have to pray or you need a special place to acknowledge that, will that be supported in the, in the work environment. Just trying to ask those questions because again, these all tie into you being your authentic self. You want to be able, and this is what I, I stress to a lot of C-suite executives that I work with, clients that I work with, you want people to want to come to work, right? Because if you, if you come into work because you have to, you're not really giving 110%. But if you're coming to work because you're supported, you feel like you can be authentic self. Work can be fun or it can be productive, work can exceed your expectations in terms of what you're trying to do. But as long as everyone's on the same page, when it comes to the employer, looking at structural barriers within the workplace, weaving DEI into their day-to-day operations and infrastructure and making sure that there's an innate welcoming, inclusive work environment where it's not just about everyone kumbaya and nothing goes wrong. No, it's not that but having a mutual respect for your colleagues and understanding that the relationship between the employee and employer are beneficial when it comes to the benefits that this ensues when, when this is done correctly in terms of recognizing DEI in the workplace. And these are the things that you want to look for when you're trying to, to find the right employer where you're not going to get it all in terms of what you're looking for. But the more you can get in terms of addressing the HR recruiting strategies, representation in leadership, even what positions, et cetera, the more information you can get, the more you can make an informed decision. And tying that into the anchors and the values and beliefs that I talked about earlier. Nicole and I are on the same wavelength here. I was going to bring up one of the other things you can look at is the Holiday calendar. Do they give off Juneteenth? Do they accommodate different religious holidays or practices? One other thing I was going to add on that is if you use the Employee Assistance Program, which is what a lot of them, essentially they're like free counseling for employees, you usually get like 10 sessions for free or something. Who actually are the counselors in that program? Are they a bunch of white, straight men? Or is there someone who represents your identities that you could connect with? Because that might be the thing that you're going to seek counseling about. So knowing who's going to be there to support you if something like that comes up is also something you may want to look at. Awesome. Thank you. I'll also add to that, just considering in terms of what we mentioned earlier, in terms of considering future needs. You know, for those of you considering becoming parents at some point, et cetera, what are, if you plan on being at an employer for a few years or, you know, you never know what's going to happen, what is, what are their policies around, for example, or what are their practices around breastfeeding in the workplace or flexibility to care for a child or care for a parent or care for someone else in your family beyond what's mandated. And I think that's kind of a key point. What's offered beyond what's mandated. You know, even thinking about women who are taking time off when it comes to maternity leave and a re-entry process where there's this whole formula about when women leave, coming back may be a little difficult in terms of trying to catch up or they're at a disadvantage, whatever that entails, however people look at it in terms of women being primary givers within the workplace when it comes to childhood. But just really making sure that managers, colleagues, the executive leadership team, has some level of raised awareness, even when we think about emotional intelligence within the workplace and sponsorship and supporting women in the workplace, where their cases, I actually just went through a case study where a woman was part of a very dynamic marketing team and was taking maternity leave, within a couple of months. It was a year-long, very big campaign, a year-long project, but she was taking some time off because she was due to give birth within a couple of months and thought she automatically would've been transitioned into this team and was not. And then it was brought to the attention through another source that she wasn't selected because she's a new mom and would need to focus all of her time on the newborn instead of her being able to be given the choice to perform in a way that she has been performing. So just really kind of getting away from those ideas. Societal expectations about gender roles and how women can't have the career and the leadership position or job at the same time. When it comes to childcare and just trying to get away from that mindset in terms of women's role or even men's role within the workplace where Procter and Gamble for, for example, have been very vocal in their advertisement in showing how, you know, there's a commercial with a man changing a child, changing diapers. I don't have children, so my apologies. Changing the diapers within the restroom and this was actually a commercial just showing it and not really putting an emphasis that it's a man. But seeing that visually, visual of a man taking care of a child will help to kind of change a shift in terms of gender roles and even translate within the workplace very easily as we get away from the social constructs and some of the barriers that people face. The common concerns. Am I speaking to this one? Yes. No. Okay. Yes. Alright. So am I comfortable? Yes. Okay. Got it. Am I comfortable because I'm seeing these, am I comfortable revealing my invisible identities by asking these questions? So I talked about earlier about having several invisible disabilities. I've talked about this at the ILR school with a number, with the ILR event that they had a couple of years ago in terms of the stigma associated with people with disabilities, not wanting to disclose it. Because when you think of a person with disability, you're not taking invisible, you're thinking, okay, they're not going to, there's an unconscious bias that happens. They may not be able to do the job well. What are some of the issues, we're going to have to invest money for accommodations, et cetera. There are a number of different things that comes along with that. But you want to be able to be in a place and work for an organization that supports you and your needs. Because when you think about it, and even within this space where we're in unprecedented times we're fighting this pandemic. We're trying to get through healthy and stronger than, than we were prior to this. But there are a number of different things that that we're faced with in terms of, okay, I need a job right now because the economy's not, it may be a little better, but I need a job right now because of what happened six months ago, a year from now when everything shut down. But understanding that you have the opportunity to really be in a place where you want to be able to be your authentic self within the workplace because 9-5, 40 hour work days, 60 hours, whatever that entails, 30 hours, however amount of time, you spend a significant amount of time at work, whether it's in the virtual space at home or within the office. And it's important that you want to be able to bring your authentic self because there's a level of negative brain activity that you have to bring into a space where you're not being your authentic self. You know, it's kinda like you're, you're a fraud essentially. And then what if my questions are perceived negatively? If you ask an interviewer, a question about diversity, and you feel that they didn't answer that appropriately and you have to ask a follow-up question, the follow-up question. And you're looking to expand on that, but you're getting a sense that they're perceiving the question negatively, that is a red flag and a sign that they're not really looking to, DEI is not a priority or maybe they just don't know the answer to the question. All of that is is aligned with you getting an inside and getting more information where you're getting your data, your qualitative data in terms of your engagement with this interview process and learning more about this workplace culture. So if you're getting a sense that your questions are being perceived negatively, That's usually a red flag warning sign, that it's not a priority despite what you see with all the bells and whistles and the graphics and the mission statement, et cetera. Because the people that are at the front or in the front lines essentially of interviewing potential employees to come work within this organization should be able to answer those questions very easily and it should not be perceived negatively. So how do you ask about organization values in a meaningful way? In a meaningful way, you just ask, in your authentic way. Obviously being professional and respectful in the way that you do. But you just ask the question, even if you see it on the website or you can just ask what are your values even though you already know what they are, ask the interviewer what the values are within the workplace, hear, how they respond to it. And then you can have supportive questions or follow-up questions in that or feel, again, tying it back to those career anchors, is this something that is aligned with your value within the workplace? Because we all, at the end of the day, we haven't been taught to really think about work and how we should feel and work should be what it is. You're just making money, work can really be fun, right? Which is why I enjoy what I do. It's a labor of love. Work can be fun as long as you understand why you're doing it, you're motivated by it. You know what your strengths are in being able to deliver. And you want to make sure that the values that they have are aligned with your values in terms of workplace culture, employee resource groups giving support, career training and development, whatever that entails. You want to be able to ask those in an authentic way and get an authentic response. And if there's any type of resistance and push back, that's usually a red flag in terms of where they are in the process of translating DEI within the workplace. And answers might vary depending on the team within the company. So we've been talking about a lot of like, broader policy type questions. Nicole mentioned invisible identities. In terms of disability. I struggle with anxiety and depression. That's something that might be kind of hard to ask in an interview. But knowing if I'm talking with my direct supervisor, how receptive are they going to be to that versus overall policies? There's not necessarily a lot about mental health in a lot of health care policies. It might be like, what's your co-pay for a therapy appointment? That's something that I took a look at, but that's something to consider as well. Like my supervisor has training in counseling, so I was pretty confident that she would be supportive. But that's something, you know, I know a lot of people are struggling with mental health in some way, shape, or form. So that's something you might want to weigh like, do I want to ask this and kind of reveal this about myself or do I want to ask? In one of those ways we were talking about before, like asked an alum or someone else who works there, but not necessarily someone who's interviewing. You can pick the way where you want to get that information. But yeah, just wanted to bring up that other piece. There's a way to actually to ask those questions without maybe necessarily revealing all the things about yourself if you don't feel comfortable doing so. So for example, ask based on what you need. What's your, what's your policy for speaking to your direct supervisor? How often do you need to see me all the time? Are you going to kind of be micromanaging? You don't necessarily have to ask that, but what's the organization's culture around stepping away from work? And for us, we have an unlimited PTO policy, right? Which we know research shows that actually sometimes actually doesn't, discourages people from taking time off. So we have to constantly encourage people to step away. But is that okay? Do you have a culture of stepping away or are you like mandating people show up and burn themselves out and just have to cope with things, right? So asking questions around your own needs can actually help get at some of the answers you're seeking without putting yourself in a position where you have, where you feel like you have to doubt yourself. That's also true for different neuro diverse backgrounds, or neuro adaptive backgrounds. For example, I have ADHD and like Mia I have anxiety. And, you know, when I've been in interviews, I just found this out this summer about ADHD so I haven't asked these questions at an interview intentionally, but I have because they were my needs. So I've said straight out, look, I am one of those people who, please don't like, walk by me and say, Oh, hey, can you do this? Because by the time I get back to my desk, that thing is going to be gone. I will have no idea what we talked about. So are you comfortable with the fact that you're going to need to email me or that we need to have time to connect to talk about things, putting things in writing, etc. And, and it's okay to ask those questions and it's encouraged because you want to know that this is going to be a good fit for you, right? Whatever your identities are. You want to make sure that this employer is going to be supportive and also that you're going to feel like you have a sense of belonging while you're there and regardless of what your identities are, that's really important. And so doing this pre-work and doing the asking questions, it's basically your way of going. Okay. Is this somewhere I want to be for a few years. We know that you're going to change jobs in a couple of years. You're likely going to have several careers within your tenure, your career. But what we want to make sure of is that this place is going to be a good fit for you.