Welcome to applying to medical or dental school this year or next fall 2021.  My name is Ana Adinolfi I work in Arts and Sciences, Career Development. I'm a health careers advisor there. I'm part of the larger network of health careers advisors here at Cornell. Thrilled to be here talking to you all today as you all consider whether or not this is your time to apply or you're planning to wait for later a cycle. so if you would humor me, for those who are attending live. I want to know a little bit about you. On your screen, you'll see a poll that's asking you your class year. You'll have to go either though online on your web browser to pollev.com/ana2021, or you can text to participate using just letters. So let me know what class year, you are it's anonymous. So you can be honest, If you are a first year student and you snuck in here. 2022 has a slight edge over 2023 an now got a 2021 happening in there. Maybe our 2020 Class of 2020, maybe they're working and they can't be here at five, so if you're watching afterwards, class of 2021. 2020 earlier, Hello. Ah there we go. Hello. Okay. So it looks like overwhelmingly class of 2022, but we have a little representation from everywhere. Thank you so much. Okay. I'm just curious. Now, got a new one and that it should automatically teams for you. How sure are you right now that you are going to be applying in this cycle? The title of the presentation is applying to medical or dental school this year or next. so, I want to know where are you in thinking about that? We are sitting at around 56 percent. 54. 56, definitely applying. Okay. This is why ask I'm so curious and it's helpful to know who else is signed in today. Some are at 56 percent of Definitely. And it looks like and negligible all are probably not or definitely not. Maybe somebody in there can be swayed. Whose neutral,  right, Great. So thank you for participating. I appreciate it. It's much nicer to know a little bit about you all than Just talking to myself in my office. So here's my plan for today. We're going to talk about the medical dental school timeline. I'm going to talk a little bit about what makes a well-prepared applicant. How do you know if you're well-prepared? How are we determining that? I'm going to give you general information about each HCA-APP, which is the Canvas course that undergraduates are required to participate in. An alumni are strongly encouraged to participate in that kind of introductions, the application cycle. And then I'm going to talk to you about the HCEC, the health careers evaluation committee that rates your letter of evaluation for medical school and that most Cornellian's receive a letter from this committee. I've got some tips. There's going to be time for questions. for sure I'm here by myself today, and so please use the Q&A box as questions come up. And then I will leave time at the end to try and answer all of your questions, but I won't be able to promise. I'll be able to look at the Q and a or answer Q and As while I'm talking and only do one thing at a time. So that's the plan for today. I first want to show you the med school application timeline. So the first thing to know about applying to medical or dental school is that it's very time-consuming. A year and a 2.5 years for most people, you see a sitting right here at Fall 2021. You know, you're not going to have that white coat on until August or September of 2023, so we're almost that she years from the time that we're sitting here right now, the good news is we're already getting started. We're getting started today attending this presentation, getting started on HCA at today. and I also want to say I'm going to talk a lot about HCA-APP at HC app is a very comprehensive Canvas course. So I'm kind of giving a general overview. I'm going to be a kind of lightly touching on some things, but know that HCA-app has a ton more information than even I'm giving you right here. So this is the process that you're planning to apply in 2022 if you decide to take a bridge year, that process just shifts back a year or two, whatever makes sense. As you can see here for those of you who are alumni or are graduating in December. And so we consider you as an  Alumni for the HCEC. Your timeline is a tiny bit different. There's some different dates and deadlines. And HCA app is going to give you a whole PDF of what the differences between the undergraduate timeline versus the alumni timeline. Another thing to know is that for medical and dental schools, applications are rolling. And so it's important to have this timeline in your head, to have a plan to meet this timeline. And a big part of what I'm going to talk about, about deciding if am I going this year or next is, do I have the time to devote to this application process? And it's the time, it's the mental energy, It's the financial energy, it's all that stuff. So that process for applying to medical and dental school, It's a holistic review. I just happened to have the American Association of Medical Colleges competencies on here. But dental school schools got them too every professional school has their own set of competencies that are quite similar. This is not a checklist. These are things that you can go out and get those social skills or cultural competence skills. It's kind of a collective culmination of the skills that you've demonstrated in your time in undergrad and afterwards. No two applications are going to be the same or have the same stuff on them. There's no equation or formula to a well-prepared applicants. If there was, I would give it to you. I swear I want you to get in just as much as you want to get in. But it's helpful to keep these things in mind because these are the sorts of competencies you're going to be asked to demonstrate by medical and dental schools when you apply. And there's nuance to this, right? Everybody use competencies are going to look different and everybody's application's going to look different. And so I want you to know that the stuff that I'm presenting here today, there's no hard and fast. You must do that. You don't have to do that. And that's really where health careers advisors come in. You can help me determine, Have I met this time and see am I demonstrating in it? And how do I know if I have what it takes or if I'm going to be able to apply the cycle. So given these competencies, here's some questions you might ask yourself if you are thinking like, Do I need more time or not? So some reasons people might choose that they need more time, given the competencies we just looked at is they don't have enough clinical experience. So especially, you know, for all of you, you did the last half of your pre-med present experience and the pandemic. And so you might have had clinical experience is canceled, unavailable, delayed, modified in a way that you weren't interacting with people that sort of stuff. For some of you who are still in undergrad, you might not have those capstone experiences yet on your resume. So you're planning to become the president, that of that club, you just became the president of the club. You are about to take on leadership or do a publication for your research lab. So it might be a thing that's happening in the future that you're definitely going to be able to demonstrate that competency, but not quite yet. There's also letters of recommendation that are required as part of the HCEC and as part of the med, school application process. And those relationships take time. And again, because of the pandemic, there might not have been as much interaction with faculty members, staff members, advisers, supervisors as there might have been pre-pandemic. Another piece of that is academic preparation, and I'm going to talk about that in the next slide, scroll on through. So what do I mean by academic preparation? That's a huge chunk of what, what is part of your application the first is the coursework So by the time you apply these, we certainly want you to have finished the coursework and I recommend that you finish the coursework before you take the MCAT OR the DAT, some people do find finishing the coursework the same semester that they are studying for the MCAT or the DAT Some people don't take that advice with a  grain of salt but that's certainly something that you need to be factoring in. Am I done with the courses I need? Another thing that I encourage you to do if you haven't already, is to look at your BCPM, GPA. That's biology, chemistry, physics, and math. Your BCPM GPA, biology, chemistry, physics, and math is something that the health profession schools look at separately when it comes time to apply. So they're going to set look at your cumulative GPA, the one that you see on your transcript. And then they're going to be pulling out those math and sciences courses and saying, how does that person do? There is no official way to do this. And so it's something that you have to calculate yourself because you have to determine for yourself what counts as a math or science course. No incomplete. So you have incompletes, those certainly need to be finished before you apply. Recent academic success. And that is one of those. What do we mean by recent academic success? It depends. It varies from person to person. You were someone who struggled at the beginning of their college career. Do you have enough distance from that? Or if you're somebody who had one semester that was really rough do you have enough distance for that, those sorts of things. And then the ability to talk about anomalies on your transcript. So sometimes some things are more recent, it's harder to talk about. And when you have a little bit more distance, you have the ability to reflect on that more. So that's something certainly to talk about with a health careers advisor because we can help coach you on how might you talk about this? Are you ready to talk about? This is the answer that you have reflecting the learning and the maturity that medical and dental schools are hoping for. Standardized tests. So that's the Mcat for medical school and jeans your school and the DAT for people who want to go to dentistry, we recommend that you take it once only when you're feeling very prepared. I know that a lot of you are studying for these entrance exams right now. And I urge you to think about how am I feeling? Am I studying them as much that want to am I reaching my full capacity? Am I as prepared as I can be for these exams? Because the ideal is the only take it once. We recommend with these exams that you complete it by April. So you can put together a list of schools that it's comprehensive and still allows you to stay on that timeline that I showed you. April is recommended because the scores will take a month to come back for the Mcat. And so if you take the MCAT in April, you're going to get those scores back in May. And then we're going to have you submit your application into it. So we want you to have that information, have that data to be informed about which schools you're going to apply to. And standardized tests. It involves time. We want you to be enjoying your time. We want you to be fulfilling all the responsibilities you have, whether that's as an undergrad, your coursework, your extra curriculars, or if your post grad the job that you have in the other responsibilities that you have at home, ensure that you are going to be able to devote the time to make that happen. So again, this is something that you're not quite sure where you fit in. This is a great opportunity to talk to your health career advisor. So medical and dental schools do a holistic review. They're going to look at those competencies. They also are going to look at metrics. So when we say holistic review, they're going to consider higher demonstrating their competencies. They are going to consider your distance traveled, which is, you know, how you've experienced life and how you've grown and changed as a person. In the time since you've entered college, they're going to be looking at that transcript to consider your upswing to read those essays, to read those letters of recommendation. And they're going to be looking at your metrics so we can ignore it. I wish that we could, and we could all get in based on the quality of our writing in our distance traveled. What we see from medical schools is yeah There's, there's a general comfort level with stats that we've seen from Cornell. There's also a lot of factors that go into that. A lot of the things I was saying before, gosh, I hadn't really hard semester. When we went remote all of a sudden it or I had a really hard semester with my mental health or whatever it might be. There are things that affect this kind of bottom line. The general metrics that we've found to be issued for Cornell students is a science GPA above a 3.4, is an M cat above a 510. I got another chart for you. Okay. So here's some data that's specific to Cornell. This is 2019 data to give you idea where the numbers come from. But first, I want you to take a deep breath. If you are somebody who your Mcat or a GPA are below these numbers, I'm sharing these numbers not to dissuade anybody from your chosen career path, but to give you more information about deciding whether or not this year or next is the best choice for you. I'm not making a value judgment about whether or not you should be a physician or dentist. If this is the career you want, then we will get you there, we may need to consult to figure out what is the best timing for you ....do these numbers apply to your particular situation, your particular journey and distance traveled. So information. if this isn't you then are going to be fine. Yes. So another reason to consult with a helper as advisor. So if you are looking at this information then thinking, bridge year is sounding more and more good to me. I want to let you know that you're not alone. So those of you who are class of 2023 or earlier know that bridge years are astoundingly common astoundingly common. 87, It's more like 86.6, but 87% of cornellian take at least one bridge here. So it's a very small population of people who are choosing to go straight through. And 60 percent ish of Cornell applicants, Take two or more bridge gets to remember, It's also relatively common. And the average age of an entering medical student nationally, not cornell but  nationally is 24.5, but I'd imagine that Cornell number is right around there. So if you are considering the taking a bridge year, if you're considering taking more than one bridge year, you're not alone. Many Cornellians  make this choice. A common question that I get from people who are starting to consider that a bridge year is a good choice for them, is like, okay, so what am I gonna do with that year? I'm not going to go through all of these. I want to just point out that it exists and say that this is a great opportunity to talk to a health career advisor about what's next for you. If you choose that, we will support your search for whatever it is. So we'll help you figure out what is the best choice for your bridge year and we'll help you get started on the search for whatever that choice ends up being we'll help you through all of the steps to make it happen for you. So it's possible we can help you. I don't know if we're going to have enough alumni on the call, but I want to know if you are currently taking a bridge year So if you're not if this doesn't apply to you, then don't bother responding. But if you're currently taking a car, you play merrily spending your time. So I know some of you are doing research and shadowing whatever, but just I'm just curious, what do we do it better. And then we don't have a ton and pico clinical job winning out right now. Okay. Looks like clinical 43% of research on that. I'm including some of our research and there is around 25 percent and then you've got an even with service, school or other and chat me the other person who answered either I'm curious. Thank you. Just for fun for me. Okay. So here we are back at the timeline. I wanted to come back to it because I've given you some information about what it might look like if you're sitting here and you're like, Yes, I'm prepared, let's do this. Let's make this happen. Awesome. We're going to talk a little bit more about specific. So the time there were already now we're in fall 2021. This fall is when you're going to be participating in the FCA app experience. I'm going to talk about that in 1 second. Hcpc registration happens in December. I'm going to talk about that in a second to your history with the FCC. The stuff that they're going to know about you is ending around February 2022 for most people and for everybody, it's going to end in May or June when you submit that application service app. So when you get that application together, you're going to be submitting in an early June because we need to do that. That's on a rolling basis. One sets in your history with them pretty much bet. You know. There are things that you're plenty to do over the summer or the things that your place, you next year. They're nice and relevant. And medical schools will certainly want to hear about those and an update, but they're not going to be a deciding factor in whether or not you're offered an interview at medical or dental school. So if the stuff that you're planning to do this coming summer of 2020 to or the following year with only one bridge here, is going to be a significant part of your application package. We don't recommend applying. We recommend seeking more than one bridge here if that's the case for you. So again, if you take it out within a year into it, Let's talk about what you need to do this fall and winter to make this happen for you. Okay, So HDA, I said this a million times. It's the health careers advising, application, preparation, process, ECA ad. You see why we have an acronym. Now, this is a Canvas course. The point of the Canvas course is to get you started in the application process. A lot of the stuff that you're going to do, it, you see app is going to familiarize you with the application process and get you started on some of the writing that you have to do. Because there's a significant amount of reading for these medical and dental schools the HCA APP process is required for undergraduates who want to use the Cornell HCEC letter, and it's strongly recommended for alumni to do. Please take a look everybody and give it a shot. I think it's wonderful. There's a bunch of different modules. There's readiness, there's writing, like I said, for the application, there's a bunch of resources to get you hooked into what you need to know in order to apply. There is a bunch of stuff in there about the HCEC timeline and requirements. And things that are going to help prepare you for the application process. So it's important to note that while the HCA app informs, HCEC whether or not you've completed the requirements because it step 1 of HCEC has to have completed it's the app. The two processes aren't otherwise connected in any way. So the writing that you do, the information you share and HCA app is only for you. It's not going to be shared with HCEC So it's easy to get started with this. I'm going to share the link right here. Let me put it in there. It's live today. And I will also put this in an email that's going to go out to everyone who registers, so let's pop that in the chat. If you previously registered with HCA app and you are still an undergraduate student, then you do need to repeat HCA at get involved in each day at this here. If you did HCA I've last year. And you're an alumni now or you weren't alumni when you did that last year. You don't need to complete HCA app again in order to register with HCEC. So it's your choice, I would say do it because you've grown and changed in a year, but I think it's a wonderful resource. Okay. So that's HCA  APP at what is HCEC? HCEC, the health careers evaluation committee. They write a letter of evaluation for you for medical school. It's different than a letter of recommendation which everybody is familiar with. You pick the people who know you and love you the best for you, have wonderful, supportive, collegial relationships with, I'm going to ask them to write about how great they think you are. Top 1% of people alive, which you're all wonderful. I'm sure the HCEC, provides a letter of evaluation so they collect information that you and I am just about every Cornellian who's applying for medical or dental school this year. And they write you a measure, balanced, overall, positive and supportive letter about your candidacy for health professions fall. And so the value of the HCEC letter is that since they're writing it for everybody, when they say you're awesome at a particular thing, medical and dental schools really believe that. So of course, you don't know these people and that's on purpose because advising is separate from HCEC. That's the way we do it here at Cornell. And so you spend this winter and spring getting to know the HCEC are going to provide them a bunch of information to help to get to know you better so that they can write you this wonderful letter of evaluation. It's easy if they're busy, they've got a letter, letters to write. And so completing the time, completing all the assignments on, on time is very important and that's why we have it all loaded into the HCA apps that you get a sense of. What is the timeline like so that I can start completing assignments and making sure I'm making time to have this happen. So that's HCEC. If you've previously registered with HCEC, there's a bunch of different scenarios that might apply to you. I'm going to put that link also. I'll put that in the chat for you and include an email tomorrow. But if you've previously register with HCEC, you've got some decisions to make about what you're going to do now. And so this is another good reason to meet with your healtcare career advisor if you're not sure what it is that you want to do as far as updating, reactivating all that good stuff. So if that applies to you and you are re-applicant where you started the HCEC process and then when unfolds, please take a look at that resource because that's going to help inform what you're going to be doing. Okay. So I got tips. This is I just had my 10th applications cycle, working with Cornell students. I'm ten years in. And I have advice. So take this as you will, with advice. The first is to act as if you're applying in this cycle. So if you're one of those people who's neutral or it's on the fence, you're thinking maybe I will, maybe I won't, I recommend just jump in and start the process. Way easier to start the process and then go on later than it is to not start the process. And that all of us and February realize, Oh no, I want to apply this cycle and try to make up all of that information and all of that time. In a short period of time, I've seen people do it. They aren't very happy people and it's very time-consuming to make that happen. The second is to be evaluating your own maturity. You can call it your sense of self. Sometimes I caught swagger, particularly when I'm talking about students who are not choosing to take a gap year at. That's one of those things that med schools can judge. And it's not something just like competencies that you really put a finger on it. I know it when I see it. Think about you when you were a senior in high school versus now or even who you were last year as opposed to now? Yes, you're the same person with the same personality of the same values. But the way that you could talk about, let's say your motivation for the health professions is remarkably more mature, maybe even then it was six months ago. So that maturity is not something to count out in a piece of that is also, you've gotta be able to write about it. So you have to have that comfortability with writing about yourself, writing about your accomplishments, writing about your motivation for the fields. And that's why I love HCA app because it gets you started thinking about those things. And if you're having trouble with their written assignments, sometimes that's a sign of we need to dial it back and you think about getting some more experience before it's time to apply. So the next thing is this is the start for many of you of forging your own path. You know, there's this was true for me. It was all kind of set out for me, right? I go to high school. I graduated from high school. I go to college. I graduated from college. And then there is no rule book for what you have to do next. There is no right thing. There's no checkbox. And so you have to figure out what's the best path for you. And it might not be the best path for your best friend or your roommate or your cousin or whoever. Not. Part of that is something that you have to do internally. And so I encourage you to if you're thinking like, well, I would take a bridge year, but this other thing I need to do X, Y, and Z examine those. That might be true and I'm not going to talk you out of applying straight through it. That's something that you decide is, is a choice that you want to make. But it's something that I urge everybody to stop and consider. And that goes to people who are already planning one gap year or are already involved in their second or third. Make sure that you are making the best choice for you on the timeline. That makes sense for you. My last, my last tip, thanks for humoring me, is to talk to you about health care is advisor. If you're feeling anxious, if the information here today is feeling or overwhelming or it's filling concerning or it's very confusing. Don't sit and have that feeling without reaching out to somebody. That's our whole purpose. I'm here to help you. I'm here to guide you through this process. I don't want anybody to be sitting, being anxious, kinda twirling around in it when you could talk to us and let us know what's going on and we can tell you Oh, for you in this instance, no, that's not a concern. But on the other hand, there is the thing that we shouldn't be concerned about. That's something that I do all the time. please come and talk to us. We absolutely want to have that conversation. I don't want anybody to be feeling anxious or stressed. When I have the information to help you not feel anxious or stressed or as you feel less anxious or stressed when I get rid of it, but will help lessen it a little bit. So I'm also mentioning that health careers advisors in general, I'm here today just as a representative of the health care advising network. It's a big network. As you can see. There is a whole team of us. We all work together. We have different areas of expertise and different time that we devote to help health careers advising. But it's very possible that you've encountered some of these wonderful people in your time at Cornell so far. And so you're seeing names on this list. oh my gosh, I love Ben Martin. He's, he's been so helpful to me. Then that might be a great place to start with asking these questions. And Ben can let you know. oh I don't do that part, but I do this part, that sort of thing. So do keep in mind, it's not just me, I'm here representing healthcares advising network. I usually work with arts and sciences students, but I'm working with students in all colleges at this particular moment. But there are so many other people that you can talk to you and they're on this list and they're wonderful. And I'm going to put a link in the chat too that has all of their contact information. So do please, do please reach out to other healthcare as advisors in the network? So if you want to get in touch with me, there's three ways. So the first is group drop-in hours. Those are going to be happening on Wednesdays, starting on Wednesday. Next week. There's a group drop in hours. I'm just sitting here. I'll be sitting here virtually for two hours waiting to see who comes in, who doesn't come in. You could come and visit and ask a question. You can sit there for two whole hours if you want to. You can ask a question and leave. You can sign in and sign. I mean, I hope you say at least Hello, but you can sign in and sign out. It doesn't really make a difference. So this is to get access to me if you need access to me. And it's also to hear what other people are asking. A lot of times there might be stuff that didn't even occur to you or that you're like, oh yeah, I was worried about that too, that another person asked. So absolutely something that is helpful for us all to kind of sit in a group together and be thinking about it there's also 15 minute one-on-one appointments every Monday from one to 04:00 PM and all this is in Eastern time. Those are same day signups So starting at 8:45 in the morning, you will be able to sign up for a drop in later on that afternoon. So if you look right now at the link, you wouldn't be able to do it. You wouldn't be able to find anything because it's not Monday at a Monday morning, you'll be able to see everything that you need to see all the way up until my last stop and spot opens. 3:45. So that's a ways to get in touch me a quick 30 minute one-on-one appointments every week day when I'm not doing drop-ins, I'm doing appointments. And so that is another way to find me. I list that last because it's a little harder to catch me for 30 minutes in a row. I think the next appointment is getting into like mid October right now. So a drop in is a great way to get urging questions answered here. What's going on with other people? If you come to drop-ins, if you feel like you're going to need 30 minutes and absolutely make that appointment. I just ask that you only use the time of you need that time and schedule ahead. So if you're thinking, I have a student, you can just this morning scheduled to talk to me the day after her M CAT score comes out. Right. So that's the thing that you can do to say all right. I'm not going to need to talk to Ana except for that day after my Mcat comes out or something like that. So please plan ahead. I would love to talk to you if that makes sense. I think we'll have a great community on Wednesday afternoons if you want to drop in. And that's all I have. I saw some Q&A's come in. This would be a great time to enter your question in the Q and a box. I will start moving through them. So go for it. What is the average acceptance in science GPA, I don't know the answer to that. All right. Is there a disadvantage to applying this coming year and the year after as opposed to waiting a year? I'm trying to imagine the subtexts of that question. I mean, I would always encourage people to gap years and probably gathered that I think everybody has a better I think everybody is a better candidate with more time. But is there a disadvantage? If you're talking about COVID disadvantage, I'm honestly not sure. med schools are rapidly changing. What it is that they're looking for. Who's interviewing that sort of thing. So I would say that's probably an individual question that you'd want to talk to your health careers advisor about. Is it okay to talk about mental health challenges on your application? I love that question. The short answer is yes. The longer answer is you want to have enough distance from your mental health challenges, the far enough on your journey that you can talk about them and not be emotional yourself. And that you've been talking about them in a way that doesn't make medical and dental schools worried about. So the concern with all we're talking about mental health challenges sometimes, okay? If the student has ongoing mental health challenges or they have mental health challenges that surely in the stress of medical or dental school that's going to come up, do they have the coping skills that they need to handle it? And so yes, you can absolutely talk about mental health challenges on your application. That is certainly an essay I would love to read and help you figure out. Are we kind of walking that line enough of this is something that was a tremendous journey for me as a person. And this is something that's absolutely going to be a better healthcare professional. And also you don't have to worry about me because I have all of my coping mechanisms and I have my support team and place. Your question. Other questions? I have, where do we send it for appointments? Yes. Yes. So if you're signing up with me since I'm working in Arts and Sciences now, you can sign up for your arts and sciences. You will come, if the appointments in person you would come to 172 to Goldman smith where I'm based out of. But even though you're signing up through the Arts and Sciences website, it's still okay to make an appointment with me because im seeing everybody in every school and college. Although if you're in CALS and human ecology, especially you have specialists for career and health care is I encourage them. alright. What are your thoughts on virtual shadowing opportunity is in terms of fulfilling the shadowing clinical exposure aspect. Yes. So, you know, in-person is better in person has not been an option. So my thought is that if you've had significant patient interaction, somehow, if you've had an experience where you can talk about how you've demonstrated the competencies. And it was a virtual opportunity. The medical and dental schools are going to have to accept that. The schools are all at varying degrees that I accept virtual or we encourage virtual or virtual is okay versus not. And so it's really going to vary from institution to institution. Unfortunately, I wish that was true. But something that that I wish we knew exactly what I was going to be like, but unfortunately, we can't. So I mean, would I rather it's in person? Yes. Hasn't been an option given the pandemic ... no, Do you have GPA and DAT data from dental applicants. No. we have so few that to publish the data would be identifying. But that's something that if we're together in an office, I might be able to look up and give you. The specific general data. Does it look bad to retake the Mcat love these questions? Does it look bad? So ideally, we want you to take the Mcat once. If you're going, you know, if your test is tomorrow and you're really feeling like gosh, I did not prepare as much as I wanted to. I would much rather you not sit for the exam, or sit for the exam and cancel, then take it with your fingers crossed. I want you to be taking the Mcat and the DAT when you feel the most prepared. So much, more, much better option in my book to push the exam back further than to take it unprepared. If you take it. And you're surprised by a score that's lower than what you expected, lower than your full length practice test score is lower than what we would expect based on how you perform in the prerequisite classes. And yeah, it makes sense to retake it and not something that we can consult about it like, is this a score that means that I definitely should retake is, is a score that there's a possibility that I could or cannot retake am I, just feeling anxious and the score is fine. So the preference is that you take it once. And that's because the data for things like the Mcat is directly correlated with scores for the board exams after year 1 and 2 of med school. And so they want to know, can this person study intensely for a science-based exam and perform well on it? Oh, that's why we want you to pause and not take it if you're not coming prepared. All right. Well, starting activities in January through April of 2022  be able to make it to the application? Yes. So for most students, your history with the HCEC, most people are going to be putting that and submitting that stuff in February and so things that you do after February, wouldn't go into your HCEC application and so they wouldn't be considered part of your HCEC,  letter that's being written. But anything you do after that point all the way up until the first week of June when you actually submit your application. Anything after that point? Yes. Is going to go on your application service on your MCAT application. So yes, it absolutely counts. It's maybe borderline of will HCEC include that in the letter or not. When should I ask for recommendations and is it okay if I don't have a non-science rec? So HCA app has an entire unit about recommendations and so does HCEC, so the HCEC once  you register with them, they're going to give you all the information you are going to be providing your recommenders. Most people aren't asking until after they register with HCEC. So December and January ish. The only exception to that is that if you know something's going on with one of your recommenders, They are going on sabbatical to a remote location or something like that, then it's fine to ask them now because you want to secure that before they go to that remote location, you might not be able to communicate with them. But most people are waiting until December, January, ish Is it okay if I don't have a non-science recommendation? Yes. If you read the fine print. So if you're looking at the, all the different requirements for different medical schools, as you read the fine print, usually at the bottom they'll say like, oh, we want one Humanities professor, one science professor, one teacher from elementary school or whatever. And then the fine print at the bottom says, unless you're using your school's Committee letter. And so if you were using the HCEC, that's a shorthand for I've been endorsed, right. People, people know me at my school, knows me, they trust me. So if you are using the HCEC, which my guess is all of you will. It's okay to not have a non-science recommendation because it's going to accurately reflects how you're spending your time in college. Okay? Our medical schools more lenient on the amount of clinical experience needed due to COVID? Yes. That's what they've said. To varying degrees. Yes, they're going to be more more lenient. I don't think that they're going to be looking favorably on people who have no clinical experience. But they are going to have to be understanding that especially for applicants in 2022 to most of the time that you had to be doing this stuff was during COVID. So unless you have a clinically based job, you don't really have a lot of opportunities that nuance Does the experience that I have. Is this a enough, is just demonstrating the competencies that certainly a conversation to have with a health career advisor. Because it really depends on your unique situation, whether or not it's enough or med schools will take it. All right. I'm an alum. I don't keep in touch very well with Cornell professor, so I don't feel it's a good idea to ask them for letters of recommendation. What are your recommendations? Yes. So alumni who are using the HCEC need to have at least one letter from somebody who's affiliated with Cornell. So you'll have two or three letters of recommendation total that you're submitting to HCEC. One of them has to be affiliated with Cornell. So like, yes, it can be a professor. It can really be anybody with a cornell.edu email address, right? So a staff member, a supervisor at a student job things like that. So you would have one letter that's from your time at Cornell and then the other two letters can be from your time after Cornell to make sure that you are correctly representing yourself. But in order to use the HCEC you do need that letter that's with one person affiliated with Cornell. Do you have to get other professor recommendations, in addition to the HCEC letter. So like I just said, these questions dovetail so nicely. You will have two or three letters of recommendation that you're going to submit to the HCEC. The HCEC is going to use those letters of recommendation as part of your packet to submit to medical or dental school. So they'll have so it's packet would be does that paper obviously it's 2021. It's a PDF. So your Hcec letter will go in the front and then your letters of recommendation will go behind that HC EC letters. So med schools are going to get that whole packet of information on you that will include your letters of recommendation and the HCEC.  can use your letters of recommendation kind of like an original source for the letter that they're writing because they don't know you obviously, as well as the people you're choosing to write the letter for you. How many letters of rec do you need? Two or three. I recommend three obviously. All right. It was a clinical dietitian for two years and collaborated with MDs. How much shadowing experiences is recommended? I work full time and maybe only available on the weekend. So shadowing is more for you than it is for the medical schools. They definitely want you to have clinical experience here, a clinical dietitian. My assumption as you've worked with plenty of patient, so the patient experience isn't going to be to issue. The shadowing experience is for you. Do you understand what MDs do? Do know what it's like to be a physician. If You feel like you have that experience and the shadowing isn't as much as an issue because schools vary on do they want shadowing? Do they not want shadowing? What is the purpose of shadowing for that particular school? So I would say you. My guess is you've got plenty of patient experience. The shadowing is more for you. Do you know what doctors do? Do you feel like you have a sense of the career? Is it necessary to have additional letters other than the three letters within The HCEC? No. most people submit only the three letters of recommendation for the HCEC  there are a handful of situations where you might submit an additional letter of recommendation, but certainly not required to do that. The three letters of recommendation include the HCEC letter, no if the HCEC is the letter and then the two or three letters of recommendation that you submitted to the HCEC? That make sense? Ask me another question. If it doesn't, I'm ascribe so I work with doctors all the time but I do not have shadowing. Would that be okay? A 100 percent what you're doing is shadowing. It's like extra special shadowing to work as a medical scribe. So yeah, you're not worried about you at all. How do you document shadowing on your app if it was with many different physicians and specialties. So when you fill out the app, so it's medical school and the M cast. When you're completing M cast, you're going to have to talk about where you worked, the time period, and how many hours you did and then have a contact person. So one contact person is important, but it could be just anybody who can vouch for you, right? So you could pick the physician who spent the most time with, for instance, or you could pick the office manager at that practice or the volunteer coordinator or something. So just in case Mcast comes in a checks up  on you. Is they have you ever heard of the students say, yeah, that person was your shadowing for us in the summer of 2019. So that's usually enough. And if they need to check up on you, what exactly are secondary applications? So love it. So primary applications or I don't know how old you are if you remember in the college application process. But when you apply to college, there was the common app or you wrote like one essay for everything, a bunch of different letters of recommendation all going to one place. And then each school had individual essays that they made you write that were specific to that school. And mcast is like that, but they separate them out. So there's the primary application which is just the common app, just the same thing that every single school is going to see. And then the secondary applications come afterwards. And those are the school specific application. So would be your general personal statement and your list of activities, your transcript, your HCEC letter, that's what you're going to be submitting an early June and then in the month of July and August, like I showed you on the timeline, that's when schools are going to be saying, Oh, we want to hear more about you. So tell us why you love our school. Tell us about how you contribute to diversity here. So the secondary applications are more essays that you're writing in July and August. After you submit that application in early June, Have you seen people pursue a master's during their gap years? Yes. I have a great time to discuss it with healthcare as advisor, whether or not that makes the most Sense for you. I'm personally, I'm a why spend money when you can make money. But there are plenty of people for whom a master's degree is an excellent compliment to their future medical education. So yeah, for sure. Is it allowed to, along with two to three recommendations from professors, get recommendations from doctors that you've been working with? Yeah, absolutely. So there are 10 spots on the mcast if you are applying to med school there are 10 spots, which is the admit letters of recommendation. HCEC only takes up one of them. And that's one of them with their letter packet, which obviously includes the letters of recommendation that you so yeah. You can if you want you I don't have good information about whether or not additional letters of recommendation get read by medical school. So it's kind of a mixed bag. I know they really value to the HCEC letter. They love those letters that come in the packet. Then additional letter of recommendation. Jury's out on whether or not it is something that is going to sway them one way or the other. As for offering you an interview, I was volunteering at a hospital and count as clinical experience. Usually, if you are interacting with patients like I have a lot of people who volunteer in the emergency department getting people ice chips and blankets or volunteer in patient transport or bringing patients from one floor to another. That's patient interaction and absolutely counts. If you were in the laundry, folding towels, maybe you don't have as much patient interaction because you are in the laundry all the time and that wouldn't necessary count as clinical experience that just depends. If you are an alumni do you apply to HCEC in  December as well. So you'll have the same December 15th opening day. Alumni and undergraduates have the same December 15th, opening day, but your timeline is a little bit different and all of that is available on HCA app. It's under, um, there's two PDFs about timeline and the HCEC module, which is module number 3, I recommend doing them in order, but if you want to skip to the HCEC module, you can get the timelines there and that'll show you a little bit about what the different deadlines are. Do we ever get to see our Rec letters and the HCeC letter or are there blind? It's your choice whether or not you want to waive your FERPA access to those letters. There's a whole section in HCA app about FERPA, which is the federal Education Rights and Privacy Act. That Act that says that you have the right to view your own educational records of which letters of recommendation and the HCEC, letter are.  So I encourage you to check out that module to read a little bit more about like. So the short answer is no, not as a matter of course, you're not just going to be showing your HCEC letter, but can you retain your rights to view those letters if you have an interest in looking at them later. Yeah, you can retain those rights. Look at that module in the HCA app. I decide that I need to do a DIY post back to boost my GPA. When would I need to begin applying for a post back? So I'm going to talk excuse me, person who asked the question, I'm going to give a reason about what a DIY push back is. From my understanding, I might be wrong about your particular situation, but so many students who don't need to take a full post back. So a full set of courses after graduation, they will take just the courses that they need. So let's say I got a D in chem 2070, so I need to retake Chem 2070 and I did okay, in biochemistry, but I want to retake that one and then I want to take genetics as well. because I didn't have time to just three classes. Do a DIY which is basically you are planning your own post back and taking the classes on your own time. Since it's a DIY, since you're just kind of taking the classes, you can do the research on where you might want to be and what classes you might want to take. But there's not gonna be anything to apply to because you're going to talk to the office for non matriculated students get a sense of how you register and that's going to be different institution, institutions. So that's something that it's going to really depend on. The best thing you do is to start with choosing where you want to go. Is the writing and brainstorm ideas on HCA app seen by HCEC. no. So the only thing that HCEC will know about HCA app is if you completed the app on the deadlines that some people do use the writing that they do for HCA app, like copy and paste it into HCEC, fix it up a little bit and submitted to HCEC So you might be kind of converting stuff from HCA app , to HCEC but no HCEC does not have access to that. I have access to it. But for the most part, it's going to be what you want. It's going to be however much time you want to put into it, how much reflection you want to put into it. So no, other questions. Alright. Seeing none. I will say thank you. I will let you know that two things are going to happen now, I'm going to send you a list of links tomorrow, the same ones that I put in the chat and a little bit extra. And I will email you on the recording now. So thank you everybody for coming today. We hope to see you good luck on whatever is next for you on this application timeline. So have a good one, everyone. Goodbye.